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  1. #81
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Many people talk about TBN as if it's something you can always break on demand. That's probably true when you use your (10%) ally bubble, as it's something like a 5k barrier.

    Your 20% barrier will only break on specific points in a fight, like cleaves. This is one of the reasons why a duration extension is a bad idea. It encourages TBN's use on autos, rather than specifically on big hits.

    If the barrier was 20% regardless of target and the duration was fixed at 5s, you could easily make it a dps gain as a reward for knowing the cleave timings of the fight. Right now, you could shield every big hit on your co-tank with it (and it's extremely fun to), but you probably don't want to for potency reasons.
    (0)

  2. #82
    Player
    Crater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    399
    Character
    Jade Nixx
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 90
    I think TBN probably -should- be encouraged on auto-attacks. The nature of the shield is such that it becomes more effective inversely with the strength of the incoming damage (up until the point where it fails to break), and so that's actually one of its strongest points, except for having a duration shorter than the maximum time between two auto attacks.

    If anything, TBN's biggest failure is that it's actually not as strong as it should be against the big hits and tankbusters, usually forcing the use of a secondary cooldown to safely survive (DRK's 3.x toolkit of Foresight, Dark Dance, and Reprisal would actually be tremendously useful in that regard).
    (1)

  3. #83
    Player
    PLitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    19
    Character
    Litzor Alcrerion
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Since TBN is a DPS loss, on average, increasing the duration wouldn't encourage further use. It would only make it more forgiving, which I think is fair considering Paladins can use Intervention and Sheltron without losing any DPS.

    Increasing the mitigation on the second target would be a fair way to justify increasing the net potency gain on TBN. My only concern with that though, is that it would further tip the scale in favor of off-tanking as a Dark Knight, when if anything they should make main tanking more rewarding.
    (0)

  4. #84
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    I feel like one of the main points of tanking is testing your understanding of damage patterns. If you're confident that TBN will break with just autos, it's effectively just infuriate. Also, if you want a tool that focuses on autos, then it needs to be longer duration (i.e. Bulwark, Dark Dance) or perhaps channelled. I don't think TBN is the right tool for this.

    What makes TBN interesting is that it solves one of the main problems of tanking design in this game, namely that you generally only have one active tank at a time. So while you end up learning the damage patterns associated with your "parts" very well, the rest of the time you're effectively another melee dps. One way that they've addressed the issue is to keep tanks involved with raid mitigation even if they're not tanking. TBN takes it a step further, in that it doesn't really matter whether you're the active tank at a given moment or not. You can, in theory, mitigate every big hit on yourself and your co-tank and follow up on each with a counter-attack. It's a really cool idea, but it's limited by the fact that the devs have been overly conservative when it comes to the shield strength and Bloodspiller.

    I think the reason why TBN needs to be paired is to ensure that you're still following a cooldown rotation. Otherwise, it just becomes an issue of hitting the correct MP threshold before the hit. Of course, that brings us into other issues with how the rest of our cooldowns are designed.
    (0)
    Last edited by Lyth; 10-27-2017 at 04:58 AM.

  5. #85
    Player
    PLitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    19
    Character
    Litzor Alcrerion
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    The difference being that Infuriate costs nothing to use. It's just a free 50 Gauge. The Blood you gain when TBN breaks is offset by the 2400 MP you spend to use it. If TBN didn't cost MP, then yeah, we'd have a problem of people trying to break it on auto-attacks for a DPS gain. But as it is, that's not a problem. There's no reason to use outside of busters and periods of high sustained damage.
    (3)

  6. #86
    Player
    Valdegarde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    299
    Character
    Hildegarde Rosea
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Again, I'll reiterate that auto attacks hit too hard in these fights to not attempt to TBN whatever is possible, especially if one even dreams of dropping Grit for any reason. Dark Knight has too little in between to mitigate spikes of damage from all angles to not rely on it. To "leave TBN alone" would imply a huge increase in active mitigation tools elsewhere to stay relevant if fights continue to be designed this way.
    (0)

  7. #87
    Player
    Azerhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Kugane
    Posts
    231
    Character
    Orlane Armilly
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    If my memory is good, in another mmo (WoW I think) there is a tank with very short Cds.
    Sounds cool to me: imagine if TBN was a 5s duration Cds like now, but with an short recovery like 10s, with a little cost of mana, like... The half of now.
    I think this should fix the problem of the DRK's mitigation, since you can using it more often with a dps boost.
    I just saying this like that, without any maths, but just an idea.
    (0)
    "Là où il n'y a pas d'imagination, il n'y a pas d'horreur." Sherlock Holmes, Une étude en rouge, Conan Doyle

  8. #88
    Player
    Daniel_Fury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    177
    Character
    Daniel Fury
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Miner Lv 70
    As far as I'm aware TBN can mitigate AA damage.
    You have to know that the boss will not cast anything for the next 5 seconds and apply it to yourself the second you take auto attack damage.
    The window is so tiny but it's already doable (in savage, no grit) so I don't see how extending the duration hurts (It's just lowering the skill ceiling).
    (0)
    Last edited by Daniel_Fury; 10-27-2017 at 02:45 PM.

  9. #89
    Player
    hoax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    13
    Character
    Rin Delaney
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Why not leave BS cost as is but increase the potency of DA BS (like DA adds 160/180 pot instead of 140) this way it's a priority over the rest which I feel DRK could use because right now you just dump your DA on whatever.
    (0)

  10. #90
    Player
    Daniel_Fury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    177
    Character
    Daniel Fury
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Miner Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by hoax View Post
    Why not leave BS cost as is but increase the potency of DA BS (like DA adds 160/180 pot instead of 140) this way it's a priority over the rest which I feel DRK could use because right now you just dump your DA on whatever.
    Not actually a bad idea. It would make TBN an indirect gain by giving you your BS, but need the MP to DA it for the gain.
    (0)
    How Steel Cyclone should look!

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