Regarding SMN's current condition

[Galand]

I hope we can get some new egi glam or demi summons at some point. Bahamut was a STEP in the right direction, but not even close enough to making me feel like a true SMN.

[Sunako]

Summoner dps is same than before 4.1. Now it is just easier use. Changes was mainly qol. That devotion is not even 100 raid dps if you think summoner utility is that superior. Biggest impact was that 10 more dot potency during 4.06, that was around 200 more dps boost for us.

[Draxxion]

Yes, but generally every spec is bringing something that keeps it desirable in a raid setting.

Not really. Even in that game there were glaring cases of where raids would only bring a certain spec of a class and that is it. Rogues are a big example of this. Ret Paladins too ebbed and flowed for being viable to unwanted and then back again. It has been that way even into the latest expansion. This goes for both games that yes you can play what you want, but the raid leader and group comp is always going to play a factor in what is brought. Even at its worse you could have even taken a MCH to a raid in FF14, but would you be the quickest or have the easiest time? No. That is why there is a thing called a meta. Thus players will forever flock to it claiming things are unbalanced. Which is why I say best of luck to Square Enix as you will never make it perfect. It impossible to do.

[Kabooa]

Which is why I say best of luck to Square Enix as you will never make it perfect. It impossible to do.

Admittedly my WOW info has been out of date (I generally speak from BC/WOTLK experience).

It may not be perfect, but the glaring issues being presented are why it gets called into question.

If every DPS job was doing within 2-3% of each other, that's fine so long as each job brings a set of tools valuable to the party. We're pretty close to those numbers, but pretty far from the toolkit.

[EllieShadeflare]

In light of Summoner updates, I think it's fair time to return the potency of Fire IV and Blizzard IV to 280. And if that's too low, 300.

A buff to a job has to take into account its strengths, weaknesses and identity, and the SMN's solid damage with decent support has finally been realized. However, as its damage now overtakes Black Mage, it may be worth boosting the Mhachi incinerator's damage.

And no, adding support to Black Mage is not the solution. All THAT would do is cause issues with the BLM identity.

That said, some of BLM's "low damage" problems will also solve themselves as crit becomes easier to get.

[Llugen]

And no, adding support to Black Mage is not the solution. All THAT would do is cause issues with the BLM identity.

Sorry to have to disagree with you quite so strongly, but the issue is that the "identity of BLM" as far as SE is concerned is extremely flawed. Raw damage will never ever equal party damage when it comes to party play, period. That is, unless they completely break the class for solo/light party play.

No one wants to be shunned/locked out because their job offers nothing for the party (Yes, -nothing-. Once again, utility means damage. Battle Litany is damage, Trick attack is damage, Hypercharge is damage.).

[Sunako]

There is 3 type of damage dealers utility wise

No utility = BLM, SAM offer 0 party dps
Minor utility = MNK, RDM, SMN offer around 200 party dps
major utility = NIN, DRG, MCH, BRD offer 400+ party dps

RDM is imo even worse spot damage wise than blm right now because embolden not really offer that much damage. Monk brotherhood should be changed because it encourage players play full physical party. BLM damage should be same level than samurai- RDM, SMN, MNK should be somewhat same level of damage and rest classes should be heavily bottom of personal dps. Problem with dragoon is that if you nerf their damage, they become bad at normal comb where you dont have two physical ranged. Best solution would be doing something with piercing buff.

[Remedi]

I don't disagree with the list but RDM is kinda of a wild card since they have tools that for the actual content were useful during progression (we honestly don't know if they'll add again gimmick where diying is disasterrific)
Although we could say that a strong SMN can be beneficial to a BLM to a certain extent, but problems remains in many other places that actually do not allow a caster comp

[EllieShadeflare]

Sorry to have to disagree with you quite so strongly, but the issue is that the "identity of BLM" as far as SE is concerned is extremely flawed. Raw damage will never ever equal party damage when it comes to party play, period. That is, unless they completely break the class for solo/light party play.

No one wants to be shunned/locked out because their job offers nothing for the party (Yes, -nothing-. Once again, utility means damage. Battle Litany is damage, Trick attack is damage, Hypercharge is damage.).

You know what''s also damage? That whopping 494 potency from Fire IV, that 650-715 potency from Foul, 710-781 from Thundercloud, the 342 potency of Fire, the increased cast speed provided by Ley Lines... basically, everythig Black Mage does is pure damage... that gets further increased by party buffs.

Trouble is, your logic is flawed because no support class beyond Dragoon, Monk or Summoner has damage capable of matching their support. Most really good support DPS completely lack the stopping power behind their attacks like SAM, SMN, DRG, MNK and BLM do. The quad Support group (DRG+MCH+BRD+NIN) only has a single source of damage, but even THAT isn't the best damage. And currently, the fastest party on fflogs has two pure DPS, SAM and SMN.

BLM can and will benefit from a potency boost, though crit and DH will also make uo the difference as our numbers get higher.

[dotsforlife]

And currently, the fastest party on fflogs has two pure DPS, SAM and SMN.

I see nothing but MCH/NIN/BRD/DRG as the fastest setup on fflogs.

It is a well known fact that this group beats out the raw power groups. It might change in the future but it hasn't yet.