8 man pt, why isnt my name in the the pt list?

[Viridiana]

and? first of all, i specifically used the raid list as an example, not the party list. second, even using your example the FFXIV party list system still sucks because it still leaves you out of the list (where the WoW party list includes you)

Well, at the moment all we have is the party list, and you say that putting it next to your name is a "ghetto fix." You then went on to mention WoW, but that's pretty much exactly what WoW does.

then you say that you recall it "sucked horribly without mods"

you must not have been doing much raiding, yourself, because:

1. i specifically mention GRID in my example, which is a mod. and not only is it a mod, it is the BEST mod for serious healers. (i dare any of you to say healbot and expect to be taken seriously)

2. blizzard tweaked and improved their own raid frames over time to mimic a lot of what the top raid frames addons were doing, so it really wasn't terribly different aside from lacking some more in-depth functionality and customization options.

1. I know full well that GRID was a mod. That was my point, actually. You just admitted that no serious healer would use WoW's default raid UI.

2. How far along in this were they when they announced Cata? That would be when I stopped playing, for reference.

and finally, if you had issues finding your name in the raid list, and this was a legitimate problem for you- you either weren't a healer or you were simply bad. and if you disagree with this assessment- show me your time-relevant raid achievements. (in other words, finishing content before it becomes trivialized by new gear 30 item levels higher)

Never said I had issues finding my name, only that the character name disappears from its default position once you join a raid. It takes up residence in the default raid UI, which I think we both just agreed was rather. . . lacking.

really all you're doing is underscoring my point that the people who keep white knighting the current "no player in party list" design are people who either haven't had much of any MMO experience outside of FFXIV or simply haven't ever seriously raided in a heal/support role

the devs clearly envision 2.0 to have 'serious' endgame content and they understand all the things they have to fix to achieve that. they're essentially throwing away an entire game and starting fresh because there are so many obstacles and hoops to jump through. they understand what the game needs (again- just look at the 2.0 screenshot)

but in the meantime, it's still particularly awful/clunky/wonky/unwieldy/nonsensical in the current version of the game and still sucks to work around if you value efficiency and execution.

I never put forth that the current system was good. I honestly don't much care, because I don't see myself healing in this game anytime soon. The point I was trying to make was that WoW was a poor place to draw examples from, at least during the time that I played for.