Thread: Scholar since 4.1 patch - how are we finding it?

Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

-Snip-

I do agree that going from HW to SB kind of felt like a perfectly designed job got gutted into a clunky mess. It's not so bad now though. Funnily enough, we all speculated in 4.05 that we wouldn't get any big changes until 4.1, and then come 4.1 we got no changes to what all SCHs were actually asking for (except MP reductions, but imo the only significant one was to Summon which we got thanks to SMN). For that reason, I'm not too hopeful for Selene or Dissipation. BUT even if they just made Dissipation into a Faerie swap with less penalty, it would make the current Selene a little more relevant.

I guess Chain being able to spread via Bane wouldn't be too OP, as it would most likely be exclusive to dungeon content. I don't agree with being able to Deploy Excog though. Given how powerful Indom is, do we really need a nerfed version of Excog to be AoE? It has a much better purpose as an instant heal for tank busters IMO.

I've gotten used to SCH now, and it is effective at what it does. I can easily say though that 4.x SCH is nowhere near as fun as it was before. We can only hope 5.0 will branch us away from SMN and we'll finally get a little more attention.

Having the shield being at least the same as an AST shield is good, because it means we can shield (t least) as good as the other shield class.
Faster summon is always appreciated so we dont waste swiftcast if our pets dies (not an usual thing)
Ive never had much of an MP issue but its always nice for Adlo to be cheaper.
Sustain is very welcome, it was a stupid thing to take it away, specially for a SMN

Anyway I cleared O4S before the patch and after the patch, SCH has always being a good job, and capable of clearing all of the games content, as every other job.

Originally Posted by Riyshn

I would argue that the hit to our synergy (aside from the obvious Dissipation/Aetherpact conflict), is actually the removal of Cleric Stance. Scholar feels disjointed because it is, because it was designed to take full advantage of Cleric stance dancing, and the dual-stage gameplay that that created. Now that that's gone, we've lost a core mechanical strength, and the tools that worked well with that are just kinda left hanging.



Nope, shields still aren't as strong. (numbers assume a crit multiplier of 1.4)

SCH:
Adlo: 300/300
Crit Adlo: 420/840
Succor: 150/225
Crit Succor: 210/315
Noct. AST:
Asp.Bene: 230/575
Crit Asp.Bene: 322/805
Asp.Helios: 172.5/258.75
Crit Asp.Helios: 241.5/362.25

Why is asp helios 172,5? Isnt it 150 as same as succor? I think thats what it says on the skill.

Originally Posted by Clouse_Cleyra

Why is asp helios 172,5? Isnt it 150 as same as succor? I think thats what it says on the skill.

Noct A.Helios also gains a 15% Healing Bonus from being in Nocturnal Sect.

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Noct A.Helios also gains a 15% Healing Bonus from being in Nocturnal Sect.

Oh didnt rememberd that, well AST is stronger on aoe shields then haha.
Im still sticking to SCH for Unending Coil thou xD

Originally Posted by Riyshn

I would argue that the hit to our synergy (aside from the obvious Dissipation/Aetherpact conflict), is actually the removal of Cleric Stance. Scholar feels disjointed because it is, because it was designed to take full advantage of Cleric stance dancing, and the dual-stage gameplay that that created. Now that that's gone, we've lost a core mechanical strength, and the tools that worked well with that are just kinda left hanging.



Nope, shields still aren't as strong. (numbers assume a crit multiplier of 1.4)

SCH:
Adlo: 300/300
Crit Adlo: 420/840
Succor: 150/225
Crit Succor: 210/315
Noct. AST:
Asp.Bene: 230/575
Crit Asp.Bene: 322/805
Asp.Helios: 172.5/258.75
Crit Asp.Helios: 241.5/362.25

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that only SCH Adlo gets a bonus from a crit, and no other shield spell does. I remember hearing/reading that somewhere.

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that only SCH Adlo gets a bonus from a crit, and no other shield spell does. I remember hearing/reading that somewhere.

No, you're right, but since the base heal is higher because of the crit, the shield will also naturally be higher. It doesn't go above and beyond like Adlo does.

Originally Posted by Riyshn

I would argue that the biggest hit to our synergy (aside from the obvious Dissipation/Aetherpact conflict), is actually the removal of Cleric Stance.

Completely agree with this and sadly I do think this was a last minute decision that the devs made to appease to the casuals. Those same casuals who are still not DPSing, but let’s leave that discussion in another thread.

The reason I say last minute is because if you look at SCHs Stormblood additions, both Fey Union and Excogitation seem like abilities that were specifically designed to keep more uptime in Cleric Stance. A kit that would have actually emphasised how good SCH was with the old Cleric Stance, but instead that changed and now healer DPS is faceroll easy on all three. It’s a real shame because people generally considered SCH and WAR to be the best designed jobs, not just because they were powerful but because of their core mechanics. SE did a great job at ruining their own creation in that sense.

I’m not really sure what SCH needs at this point. It’s pretty evident that the job is fine and doesn’t need buffs, just changes to its gameplay. But I think that’s a rework that all healers need. People complain that there isn’t much to actually heal in this game, and on top of that we hardly ever even use a GCD on a heal. For healers to simply DPS, throw an oGCD and then continue to DPS seems like pretty bad design in general. Until some core changes are made to content and the role in general, I think it will be hard to achieve satisfying gameplay for healers. Subjective, I know.

Originally Posted by Kabzy

Completely agree with this and sadly I do think this was a last minute decision that the devs made to appease to the casuals.

At PAX East Yoshi P stated his dislike for Cleric Stance, which was a major hint that this was destined to go.
Nothing last minute or 'appease the casuals' as you put it.