Fixing Dark Knight, Properly

[Chrono_Rising]

I believe someone on another thread had a neat idea for what Sole Survivor could be: Works the same as a MCH's Wildfire, where it compiles the damage taken on the target for the duration its up and returns a % of the damage back to us as HP. Could also work for MP, but personally i'm more drawn to the HP return idea and using Crater's ideas on top of that, we would have skills/abilities that would provide us with ample MP return anyway.

Also, I wouldn't mind having a TA effect on it instead and it doesn't even have to be 10% could be 5% or work like a BRDs Foe requiem and give 3%. But I understand the element of tank balance is important and will only treat it as a fantasy, a guy can dream right?

I agree, I would love a 15 second trick attack. I want more mp for more dark arts, I am dark arts happy when I dark knight things lol. When I die, I'll wish for one more dark arts.

[Joe777]

I'm seeing a lot of "I want DRK to be better than PLD and WAR" in op's post. Many of the suggestions are outrageous and will create extreme imbalance between the Tank Jobs.

There is 1 thing I think we can all agree on though: DRK could benefit from more utility and some additional effects on Sole Survivor. Making Sole Survivor increase damage the target takes by 10% is a good solution to both adding more utility and making Sole Survivor more useful in boss fights without adds, even if it means it would offer the same utility Ninja has with Trick Attack and thus make Ninja less unique in that field, but such a change would definitely set it apart from PLD and WAR.

[Derio]

I just want DRK to be on par with PLD and WAR

[shao32]

Trick attack effect on sole survivor Will make DRK mandatory no matter What, dps raid buffs on tanks are more balancing breaking that anithing else, WARs 3.x are the prove of that.

[SyzzleSpark]

I'm seeing a lot of "I want DRK to be better than PLD and WAR" in op's post. Many of the suggestions are outrageous and will create extreme imbalance between the Tank Jobs.

Such as? I'm genuinely curious, as most of what the OP suggested is extremely modest and conservative, and if you read carefully about 50% of it is QoL stuff that in no way actually buffs the job's numbers or performance.

Extreme imbalance is where we're at already. Its worse than HW. HW PLD at least had a niche, a specialty, and was actually noticeably better than DRK in half a dozen midas/creator raids. The job needs some serious buffing and you will probably see a lot of "better than PLD/WAR" because that's what the job needs - its behind in every aspect of what a tank is supposed to bring to the party, it has no niche, no area of expertise or place it excels, so unless we expect SE to precisely fine-tune to-the-nanometer adjustments such that all the tanks perform within a decimal point of one another in every area, DRK needs to be buffed significantly in a specific niche. Better at everything? No. Significantly better at 1-2 things? Yeah.

Trick attack effect on sole survivor Will make DRK mandatory no matter What, dps raid buffs on tanks are more balancing breaking that anithing else, WARs 3.x are the prove of that.

While I'd far prefer buffs to our personal DPS, a 10s TA on a 120s recast is laughably weak. People see raid-wide buff and instantly think its amazing/balance-breaking. 10% for 10s every 2 minutes is something like a .8% raid DPS boost. Not even a whole 1%. If you compiled all that and gave it to DRK it would basically be the same as giving them a poor-man's Berserk or FoF (20% damage for 20s every 60s would be roughly equivalent, so basically an inferior FoF/Zerk). This amounts to about a 7% boost in personal DPS, which is about how far behind DRK is, on average, if you comb the flogs.

3.x WAR Storm's Eye was not even close to the same thing. It was a 100% uptime buff that only WAR could efficiently provide that other jobs depended on lest their DPS suffer immensely (not by .x of a %, more like a whole 8, 9-10%, give or take depending on the job, things like NIN mudras being unaspected, DoTs, etc.). If you didn't have it, there was literally zero way to make up that difference.

[Joe777]

Such as? I'm genuinely curious

Drastic decrease in MP usage for one, done in large by Dark Arts effects being added to base effects which is basically saying we no longer spend MP to gain them. Also the Sole Survivor concept basically refunds the MP cost if you use Dark Arts as well as grant an added effect. I'm all for buffing Sole Survivor to make it more useful during a battle but that's over the top.

I mean I'm all for a buff to DRK so it is more on par with PLD and WAR but some of the idea collections I am seeing posted in this thread will make DRK considerably OP and as a result will never happen. Some ideas aren't too over the top but still...

[SyzzleSpark]

Drastic decrease in MP usage for one, done in large by Dark Arts effects being added to base effects which is basically saying we no longer spend MP to gain them.

Pretty sure the only DPS oriented ability this was done to was C&S. What this amounts tois basically an extra 210 potency per minute. Thats not game breaking at all. Divide that up and that's like an extra 8 potency per GCD or something like that. That's like if SE gave us Scourge back, but nerfed the DoT to 8 potency per tick. Not really awe-inspiring. When I see a buff that looks powerful, I usually try and math out how much of a gain it actually is. Usually, I'm surprised.

DM's DA effect being raised to baseline really isn't that big of a concern honestly, considering PLD can now block magic. Its also meant to rid us of this system where we have to sacrifice DPS just to get our cooldowns to be fully functional. In a DPS context, MP=potency, so trading MP for potency via DA is the de-facto standard. It doesn't translate to mitigation though, any more than you can balance a Trick Attack with a Sacred Soil.

Those were the only two abilities that literally had their DA effects made baseline. Some other abilities had their DA effects buffed slightly, such as Quietus and AD. And when I say slightly I mean *sliiiiiigghhtttllyyyy* with a lisp, lilt, and slur. AD returning 120 MP per target hit when DA'ed is a gain of a whopping 7 potency per target. If 2400 MP is 140 potency, 120 MP is 7 potency. Its peanuts. Buffs like this are far from dethroning the other two tanks or making them irrelevant. That's why I said in response to Shao, the OP's changes are extremely conservative.

Also the Sole Survivor concept basically refunds the MP cost if you use Dark Arts as well as grant an added effect. I'm all for buffing Sole Survivor to make it more useful during a battle but that's over the top.

Not sure what you mean here, the OP's Sole Survivor had no interaction with DA.

If you're referring to the Shadow Wall change, I'll refer back to my previous statements about a sacrifice of DPS just to make our core cooldown suite function with a respectable degree of power being stupid. Anyway, its not a have-your-cake/eat-it-too situation. All it means is you trade one defensive ability for another. You're trading a dollar for 4 quarters instead of trading a dollar for 4 soybeans.

Its like if you were to ask PLD to pay a Holy Spirit's worth of MP unless they want to have a 30% Bulwark instead of 60%, or if you told WAR that Vengeance was gonna go back to being just a counter attack, and they'd have to pay 50 BG to get the 30% mitigation. Hell, WAR used to essentially get 10 BG just for pushing Raw Intuition or Vengeance. They actually got DPS *gains* from hitting mitigation buttons, and SE is gonna tell us its our lot to do the opposite?

Dude. All of the "hell no." All of it.

In no way is that fair, balanced, or even intelligent. And its not something people that play DRK should have to put up with, especially if their DPS is gonna be lower and their utility laughable in comparison. If I'm gonna pay for mitigation in DPS in ways no other tank needs to, the both of those things better be competitive at the absolute minimum, if not slightly better.

The fact that the community is conditioned to think this is just how DRK works is a problem in itself, and a double-standard on which partial blame lies for things like the plummeting usage statistics for the job. Its not fun. DA is DRK's FoF or Berserk. It provides a similar boost on a per-GCD basis. If you told PLD or WAR that any time they wanted to get full power off their defensive CDs they'd have to hack 5 seconds or 5% off of their next FoF/Zerk they would be apoplectic. The forums would erupt.

considerably OP and as a result will never happen.

History of tanking in this game says that not only is this untrue, its no less likely than the alternative. PLD can pump out more party mitigation than a SCH fairy, and WAR spent the whole of 2.x and 3.x having exclusive access to perhaps the 2 most powerful debuffs that have ever existed in the game, completely unchecked.

[Joe777]

Not sure what you mean here, the OP's Sole Survivor had no interaction with DA.

I likely named the wrong ability then but I'm sure you know which one i mean lol

[DRKoftheAzure]

How about my personal list of DRK changes?

• Hard Slash: Add Dark Arts potency of 300 and/or generates 1 blood
• Spinning Slash: Add Dark Arts combo potency of 350 and/or generates 3 blood
• Blood Weapon: Remove Grit restriction, add the effects of "increase damage dealt by 10%" and reduce recast to 30 seconds. Grit effect would be "Ignores Grit damage dealt penalty"
• Bring back Scourge but have it combo off of Hard Slash, same base/combo/Dark Arts potency as Syphon Strike, is still a Damage over Time effect but also reduces target's magic damage dealt by 10% and increases target's magic damage recieved by 10% and DoT tick generates 1 blood
• Power Slash: Add Dark Arts combo potency of 650 and/or add the effect "increase targets damage received by 10%." baseline with Dark Arts effect "Increase damage dealt by 10%" And generates 10 blood
• Syphon Strike: Generates 3 blood.
• Blood Price: Remove Grit restriction, add the effect additions of Blood Weapon but with the effect of "increase HP recovery via healing magic by 10%" instead of "Increased damage dealt." Reduce recast to 30 seconds.
• Souleater: Make "convert physical damage into HP" baseline, have Dark Arts be "Increase damage dealt by 10%" and add Grit effect of "Reduce targets damage dealt by 10%"
• Dark Passenger: Change Dark Arts effect from inflict blind to "reduces target's Accuracy by 20%"
• Dark Mind: Add "decrease physical vulnerability."
• Dark Arts: Remove "Dark Arts fades upon use" restriction on all effects that are affected by Dark Arts, remove timer on Dark Arts and add the effect "Darkside fades when MP reaches 0" or make effect like NIN's Huton
• NEW Weaponskill at level 49: Debilitate, combos off of Scourge with same base/combo/Dark Arts potency as Damage over time potency 50 for 30 seconds and reduces target's physical damage dealt by 10% and increases target's physical damage received by 10% and uses the Heavensward Delirium animation because it looks cool. Also have it generate 10 blood and 5 blood per DoT tick
• Abyssal Drain: increase potency to 150 and make "Convert Damage dealt into HP" baseline with Dark Arts potency of 350.
• Sole Survivor: add "increase targets damage received by 10%." Any enemies that would be nearby in 10 yalms radius would be marked with Another Victim that lasts 30 seconds and Increases the damage they recieve for 30 seconds. Or change effect to "convert physical damage dealt into HP"
• Delirium: change name to "Blood Force" and change effect to "Restores HP and MP by 10%" with Dark Arts effect 20%.
• Quietus: change cost from Blood gauge to TP.
• The Blackest Night: Additional shield break effect "increase HP recovery via healing magic and damage dealt by 5% and decrease damage taken by 5%." Dark Arts effect of making it party/raid wide shield that lasts 10 seconds. Or just make The Blackest Night be like WAR's Inner release on top of having 20% HP Shield but can only applied to self.

These changes can be done in gradually so that way the devs don't have to work on JUST DRK.

[Mycow8me]

On Part IV:
Dark knights lack physical mitigation severely, being the magic defense tank doesn't really do anything for us when paladin and warrior do just fine against magic attacks anyways. For dark mind it should be 15% vuln down and with dark arts +15% magic damage reduction on top of that. We should not have our party mitigation stacked with our personal mitigation skill, paladins/warriors is not. Either we need a new skill for it or SE needs to turn one of our mostly garbage skills into it like they did with shake it off, (looking at you delirium and soul survivor).

Shadow wall should be the dark knight equivalent of Vengeance for warriors. 20% mitigation for a 15 seconds. Instead of dealing a 50 potency attack it can drain HP from attackers for 25 potency. Dark arts 30% mitigation 20 seconds and 50 drain potency or something. Basically just making it all around stronger. Cooldown needs to be lowered to 120 seconds.

Adding dark arts affects to living dead will create dangerous scenarios in which you want to use dark arts before it on a skill that already procs late for emergencies due to server ticking and will end up getting us killed more often by the attack we were trying to prevent even though the animation went off. There's no reason to make this skill so detrimental when paladins and warriors functions so much more easily. At the "very least" SE could just make it so we come out of living dead with weakness status affect if not healed to full, give us +% healing during it, any number of other solutions if they don't want to change it fundamentally.

Part V:
I read this a few more times and it grew on me. The only thing I could add to this is that maybe despair should be a +% parry chance per stack on top of your listed affect in that we are becoming less concerned with dps and more concerned with our survival. Parry could also trigger a % chance of plunge cooldown reset giving dark knights back its parry proc dps. It would fit well with your listed plunge change too even make it possibly more weave lenient.

Something worth noting: Its been mentioned that dark knights could just as easily have TBN be AOEable for 10% with use of dark arts. This could work well as our party mitigator instead of using soul survivor or delirium, they could be altered instead to become a personal mitigation tool or stronger DPS tool. I feel like DRK should have more HP consuming/draining capabilities since that has been a part of its lore for as long as I can remember.

Edit: I also wanted to add that I firmly believe soul survivor should become a form of Instant HP grab with a cooldown of 1 minute instead of this compile thing. As it stands, were the only tank class that cannot heal itself in an emergency unless souleater is next on your combo list which doesn't seem fair...