Isn't it about time for WHM to get an AOE mitigation tool?

[Fernosaur]

I agree with most people that you're a little bit way too pessimistic about WHM, Tonberry, but in a way I can get behind giving WHM at least an answer to Collective, Soil or Fey Covenant. However, this...

I get it. I do. At least I think I do, to some extent. Bear with me, I'm going somewhere with this (past the bold)-

When I see how Square has been making healer adjustments, I'm getting similar feelings as I had in 3.0 and 3.1. It's hard not to. For example:

We've gained MP economy in this expansion that's led to Cure 3 being much more usable overall, and I very much appreciate that, but Cure 3's "oomph" feels like less and less these days after the introduction of Earthly Star on a minute cooldown and Indom being buffed to 500 potency. It's lost strength relative to others' toolkits even though the spell itself has not changed one bit. Hell, it's lost strength relative to WHM technically simply by virtue of Cure and Cure 2 getting buffed while 3's potency was untouched.

I don't intend to say WHM is in a bad spot performance-wise. It's not. I do think there's a lot they could do to make it feel better, though.

This right here. This sentiment, I think, is the most important! There is no real "oomph" to WHM, and it's kinda sad. It's, however, not the biggest issue I have with the job.

I've played all three healers in raid this tier. Started as SCH, then switched to AST, then did WHM for a good chunk of v4 prog. Finally switched to SCH as a main (even if forum says it's PLD :P), and honestly, the one thing really, really bothers me about WHM is the lack of action efficiency.

What really turns me off of WHM is that its oGCD heals are rather underwhelming compared to the other two. In a game where GCDs are the most precious resource, this really hurts the job.

Assize is the only true oGCD burst heal they have, and though its healing potency and CD is warranted due to its "secondary" effects (the DPS and MP restore), it still pales in comparison to Indom and specially Earthly Star.

Aslyum is also... odd. If Collective Unconscious went back to its initial incarnation of having the effect change between sects, I would say Asylum is fine as is, but right now... not really. In my head, CU and Asylum serve more or less the same end as Whispering Dawn: a "free" HoT CD that costs no MP and GCD. However, Asylum is by far the weakest of the three. It has the weakest potency per tick (only if we count WD with Rouse, which should always be the case), and it has the disadvantage of needing everyone to be inside the zone for the full duration to take effect. CU, meanwhile, can have everyone stack for a max time of 3 seconds, get the regen, and then go on their merry way, while the strongest oGCD regen in the game ticks on them for up to 25 (!!!) seconds, while also mitigating damage at the start. Whispering Dawn can be triggered even in the middle of casting and has the same range as Medica, which can also be manipulated by fairy positioning, for the better or for worse (this is really handy in 'spread out' situations like Fire IIIs).

Plenary Indulgence is... kind of an oGCD? The fact that it absolutely needs a GCD heal to be cast to even become available kinda kills the purpose of an oGCD, but I won't deny it's a nice tool to have.

We can argue that it's pointless to give WHM more HPS than it already has. Yes, they have more than enough right now. But honestly? Why the hell not? They're the so-called pure healer, yet have the weakest GCD AoE heal in the game ever since the buff to Succor's shields. Asylum is half as useful compared to its alternatives, Assize is the weakest oGCD heal too, and while PI gives them an edge where burst healing is absolutely necessary, can it really compare to the efficiency of Indomitability and Earthly Star paired together? The answer is no. No, it cannot.

Honestly, boosting WHM's burst healing potencies would only help them to use less GCDs healing and more GCDs DPSing, which is, atm, their only way to rival rDPS contribution by SCH and AST. And also it would serve a little bit to really, actually solidify it as the "pure healer," even if it's not really necessary. If it makes WHM mains feel more powerful, then to hell with what's "necessary."

[Estelle9lives]

Except the exclusion of jobs has never been limited to just speedkills.
Open up PF right now. You'll see parties that are excluding any caster other than RDM, any melee other than DRG. And these are not speedkills or anything, they're simple weekly clears or practice parties.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I've seen this happen on PF, but the cases were few and far inbetween. Weekly clears nowadays even taken dupe comps, people don't really care.

Things

Earthly Star is amazing, but it's locked behind a 60s cooldown and it requires at least 10s of buildup to be used efficiently. There are several reasons as to why Cure III remains strong:

- Can be buffed by Largesse
- Spammable (you can literally solo Almagests on V4S with it)
- Not locked behind a cooldown - This is important.

Granted, you can say "But all the damage in this game happens in bursts!", and while that is true, using a GCD to cast Cure III is much less of a deal than you're making it out to be, IMO. You rarely ever will spend more than 1 GCD using Cure III. That GCD you're saving by using Earthly Star is nowhere near enough to bring AST's damage close to WHM, either. You also mention the GCD bottleneck problem WHM has, yet doesn't mention that Asylum is an OGCD and says nothing about the fact you need to stop actions completely to have CU proc.

And no mention of WHM's strongest OGCD heal in Benediction. It's incredibly good now that it's cooldown has been reduced to 180s, syncing perfectly with Holmgang. No other healer can bring a tank from 1 to full without spending a single GCD. And no, Essential Dignity even when used when the target has 1 HP is nowhere near as strong. It can also be used to make things like Shinryu's healer check a joke - with an Astro it takes ED+2 Benefic II to bring a Reiryu to full.

Again, I'll say that I wouldn't complain at all if WHM got buffs, I just think it's got a great kit and a good game flow as of now, and a lot of the criticism is unwarranted.

[Miste]

Except the exclusion of jobs has never been limited to just speedkills.
Open up PF right now. You'll see parties that are excluding any caster other than RDM, any melee other than DRG. And these are not speedkills or anything, they're simple weekly clears or practice parties.

It's really not safe to simply stop at simply being able to clear content/being viable. Sooner or later, the fact that WHM doesn't have any utility at all, mitigation or damage wise, is going to hit them hard. It's not noticable right now because the damage going out warrants big heals, but how long can they artificially make WHM seem strong like this? If next raid tier doesn't do as much or more damage as the current tier, WHM will immediately be ejected from all parties. I don't think it's safe to keep skating on razor thin ice like this.

This is just paranoia.

I'd like some proof that WHMs are getting blocked out of the majority of parties or statics please. So do you have any screenshots and such? Also it has to be a party where both healer slots are empty to prove they are singularly blocking out WHM with no reason behind it except that they don't want WHM.

I need this proof because as someone who plays AST & WHM I have never been excluded from any group ever for simply being a WHM. So I cannot know it actually exists in such a widespread detrimental way unless I see proof of it. Even in HW when the healers were not as balanced as they are now I never saw WHM being excluded from savage or any content.

Maybe it is time you just play a different job because it seems to me over a year of you posting the same complaints that it doesn't matter how good WHM really is you are still never happy with it. You always try to say that WHMs get excluded from a lot of groups whenever someone challenges your opinions, but I haven't seen any proof of this.

Did you know that a lot of the world first O4S clears of Neo Exdeath were done with WHMs? Their AoE healing is the most powerful of the three and their DPS spells are the highest potency of all three as well. Balance card was nerfed so the healers at the moment are extremely close in balance. 100% balance is impossible unless they homogenized all the jobs into carbon copies of each other with the only difference being the visual effects or something.



As for the AoE shield in your OP. I understand where you are coming from for it and a small aoe shield seems fine so I don't see a problem with it. It would help in 24 man raids where you sometimes get double WHM. I would say just make it same cooldown as collective unconscious or maybe longer...we can't give WHM much shielding power because they are already powerful enough in most situations and it would unbalance SCH and Noct AST.

[Sebazy]

Also note that in many occasions, a party slot can appear locked to a single slot by someone joining and then leaving a PF.

[winsock]

It doesn't have to be strong, just a little something for the few times we run into double WHM and have no answer to the excessively high damage we've been getting lately. Right now WHM is the only healer that simply sits still not doing anything useful In the face of damage that could potentially wipe your party, and it's a bit sad.

So I am a former WHM main.
Can I asked what duties you are referring to in which you have double WHM and "no answer to the excessively high damage"

Thing is, SE is very careful about max eHP values. So much so that AST and SCH shields don't stack. We should assume the same for a WHM shield. So the only time it could be useful is in a double WHM party. You won't take double WHM to bleeding edge content, and current DF PUG content is all doable with double WHM.

Shields are something AST/SCH get to bring to the table, don't take that away by giving shields to WHM

[Exiled_Tonberry]

This is just paranoia.
I'd like some proof that WHMs are getting blocked out of the majority of parties or statics please.

I never said WHM was being locked out of parties as of now.
I said they will be when people once again catch on to utility is better than excessive healing.
If AST was the only healer that had DPS increase utility, I think things would be fine. But SCH has it too, and it synergizes extremely well with most jobs that rely on crit.
Just like with WAR not having any party mitigation while DRK and PLD had it, the issue of WHM not having any utility is going to create a problem down the line.


Also to all the people saying WHM is fine because it's used in progression. Progression for most people lasts a month. After that, people have enough gear to not actually need that amount of raw healing. Why should WHM only be a wanted member for one month, then kicked aside for 6+ months?

[Saraphin]

well, WAR now has party Mitigation. so...they'll not have to worry about only being included in either "Speed" or "progression" runs.

But as Exiled says...WHMs are mainly used for progression. after that, you'll see people being told to "change healer classes". I've seen it, people have left statics in HW because they refused to change healer classes and were having a lot of pressure put on them. We've seen it in the past where WHMs have been kicked from things and being told to "Roll an AST". This was a very, very big issue in the Ultros NN around 3.4 onwards.

there is going to be this slight unless something else is given to WHM. I'm not saying buff them up more. hell, people have done math and AST as the same, if not MORE raw healing power in Diurnal. Why SE did that, i don't know.

[Miste]

I said they will be when people once again catch on to utility is better than excessive healing.
If AST was the only healer that had DPS increase utility, I think things would be fine. But SCH has it too, and it synergizes extremely well with most jobs that rely on crit.
Just like with WAR not having any party mitigation while DRK and PLD had it, the issue of WHM not having any utility is going to create a problem down the line.

You have absolutely no proof that this will happen.

In fact there is precedence possibly hinting at the opposite. Like I said even in HW when healers were less balanced than now and AST had the buffed balance that they recently removed I still did not see WHMs or myself as WHM getting blocked out of groups even when their utility was less than now and AST was more powerful than now.

So again unless you can prove this it is simply just paranoia and doomsaying.

Why should WHM only be a wanted member for one month, then kicked aside for 6+ months?

Again prove it that people are removing and/or blocking WHMs. It's been about 3 months of this savage tier. Post proof that WHMs are being kicked out of their statics and/or forced to change to AST or SCH and proof that the majority of groups in PF refuse to take a WHM anymore since it has about 3 months since it was released.

[Kabooa]

You have absolutely no proof that this will happen.

In fact there is precedence possibly hinting at the opposite. Like I said even in HW when healers were less balanced than now and AST had the buffed balance that they recently removed I still did not see WHMs or myself as WHM getting blocked out of groups even when their utility was less than now and AST was more powerful than now.

It's really only noticeable as out of favor DPS classes.

Most PF's aren't going to lock out a potential 1/3rd of the tanks or healers. But gods help you if you're a Black Mage or Monk.

[Ghishlain]

I never said WHM was being locked out of parties as of now.
I said they will be when people once again catch on to utility is better than excessive healing.
If AST was the only healer that had DPS increase utility, I think things would be fine. But SCH has it too, and it synergizes extremely well with most jobs that rely on crit.
Just like with WAR not having any party mitigation while DRK and PLD had it, the issue of WHM not having any utility is going to create a problem down the line.


Also to all the people saying WHM is fine because it's used in progression. Progression for most people lasts a month. After that, people have enough gear to not actually need that amount of raw healing. Why should WHM only be a wanted member for one month, then kicked aside for 6+ months?

It's pretty poor to assume that there are no more progression parties 3 moths after Omega Savage was released. There will always be all different types of players who will be entering / completing content at different times and WHM will assist these new progression teams in moving forward. Afterwards, they may choose to keep WHM / ??? whomever as their healing pair because they got used to progressing with X composition and they might not be interested changing to Y composition for "faster kills". Not every raider will want to be a speed kill raider - they'll be interested in clearing the content, getting their pages and loot, and moving onto something else afterwards. Sometimes, having that security with a safer healer comp will be better as it allows for more flexibility in mistakes.

This is not to say that all groups will be like this either - some will make adjustments to suit a speedkill meta, some will remain in their comfort level and keep what they deem is comfortable. To me there's enough players of each ilk to keep WHM going in the raid scene, even if it might be considered a tertiary choice in some aspects.

Please stop living like this is 3.4 era when AST defeated WHM in every facet of healing kits. 4.0 WHM offers higher HPS spikes via oGCD abilities versus the more GCD-powered AST that allow groups to smooth over mistakes much easier than AST. WHM DPS is significantly higher than AST and is less reliant on your DPS "doing well" to contribute strongly to the rDPS front. WHM's MP kit and longevity far exceeds those of AST allowing for better and more frequent wipe recovery maneuvers.

If people move past WHM being in their composition once they clear, that's fine. Not every group is going to be like that and some will choose to remain in their comfort zone once they can clear the content. WHM is definitely in a much better spot now than it was in 3.4 when AST was buffed out the ying yang.

Also, as far as I'm aware the only party mitigation DRK has is their LB. They don't have access to things like Shake It Off, Divine Veil, and Passage of Arms.