Multiple difficulty scaling dungeons

[loreleidiangelo]

I'd love to see something like Mythic+ dungeons here in XIV, but with the poor linear gear choices we have there's not much sideways wiggle room to give them meaningful rewards, and I don't think they'd be hugely popular without those.

Of late I've come to the conclusion that this game's stale itemization is a BIG part of the reason why our content is so formulaic. Give us gear set bonuses, better secondary stats that actually affect each job in different ways so people build for things that aren't Direct Hit (SB is admittedly better than ARR and HW in this, granted, but improvements can still be made), and IMO work on armor design a bit more and stop shoving the best glamour into crafting only so that glamour farming is realistic even for older content. Do these things and I guarantee the opportunity for fresh content will present itself, since there will be the possibility of "separate but equal or even possibly better" rewards that will entice players into trying it.

[frostmagemari]

Personally, i'd love to see a version of Mythic+ dungeons within the game. People always seem to complain about dungeons (A) not being difficult or (B) having to do the same ones over and over again and being bored.
A mythic+ system would alleviate that somewhat. Maybe it wouldn't be all the dungeons, or even half of them; but if it's more than the current patch's new dungeon then it can be a benefit.

Also.. people who are denouncing it DO know that you don't have to copy+paste the feature and it's reward style directly from the other game, right? SQE can change things to better suit their game. The only arguments against being open to taking a good system and incorporating it in some way is because you don't think the devs can do a good job in making the FFXIV version of a system better than the original; That, or you hate everything that's not FFXIV original systems because you think that if SQE didn't come up with it, it's not a worthwhile system... Despite the fact that XIV 2.0 wouldn't have existed at all if they didn't look at other games and their existing working systems.

[DeaconMoore]

Snip

The best thing mythic+ dungeons has going for it is you don't have to find a bunch of people on your own server to do it with. That plus the rewards makes it more desirable and feasible than mythic raiding especially on small servers. The difficulty of mythic+ dungeons goes away just like any other dungeon over time.

The only place you can find any kind of lasting difficulty is going to be in the pvp arena. There your opponents aren't predictable.

[frostmagemari]

The best thing mythic+ dungeons has going for it is you don't have to find a bunch of people on your own server to do it with. That plus the rewards makes it more desirable and feasible than mythic raiding especially on small servers. The difficulty of mythic+ dungeons goes away just like any other dungeon over time.

The only place you can find any kind of lasting difficulty is going to be in the pvp arena. There your opponents aren't predictable.

So because there's no perfect solution that solves every single problem without room for error, there's no reason to adopt systems that would lessen the problem that we have?
That's a good line of thinking to never get anything done.

[DeaconMoore]

So because there's no perfect solution that solves every single problem without room for error, there's no reason to adopt systems that would lessen the problem that we have?
That's a good line of thinking to never get anything done.

Well the fact that you even admit in passing mythic+ doesn't solve the difficulty issues your looking for a solution too should be enough for you to rethink the issue.

Mythic+ is a solution for people to gear alternatively to mythic raids they can't do for whatever logistical reason. Adopting it for the purpose of more difficult dungeons is folly.

And as far as a line of thinking to not get anything done, really? I gave you your difficulty solution already. The problem is predictability, the solution is unpredictability.

[frostmagemari]

Well the fact that you even admit in passing mythic+ doesn't solve the difficulty issues your looking for a solution too should be enough for you to rethink the issue.

Nothing will solve every issue. Nothing will, no matter how close you get there will be some issue left. I'm just not someone who believes the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Mythic+ is a solution for people to gear alternatively to mythic raids they can't do for whatever logistical reason. Adopting it for the purpose of more difficult dungeons is folly.

The idea of any sort of progression.. whether raid, dungeon, pvp, etc.. is to get to the next tier of that progression system. Some enjoy raids, some enjoy smaller content and some enjoy both while some enjoy neither and would do neither.
If a balanced progression system can be created through small scale dungeons that through harder difficulty can get participants rewards worth the effort, XIV has taken a step to encouraging a longer lasting player base.

And as far as a line of thinking to not get anything done, really? I gave you your difficulty solution already. The problem is predictability, the solution is unpredictability.

No, you didn't. You really didn't. You gave a concept, a concept that is not possible under the current design structures of MMORPGs (especially one that uses the tank/dps/healer trinity for content) or any game style for that matter. Further more, any unpredictability system implemented would fall prey to a larger number of people getting frustrated with the system because content would just be a matter of RNG, and everything would be made less lethal in the encounter due to the inherent RNG baked into the monster's actions; couple that with the problems with the game's performance in general and you have your ticket to losing subs.

[DeaconMoore]

Snip

Oy. You rail against no mythic+ for difficulty when it'll be just as easy as any other dungeon after people learn its mechanics. And you rail against fighting unpredictable opponents for being too unpredictable.

How do you get something to remain difficult if it's the exact same thing you face over and over again?

As it is now our opponents in dungeons and raids have no tactics. They have a threat bar and a cycle of abilities they use.


Now look at pvp. Sure the tactics of some are pretty darn laughable. But when facing an organized group of players you tend to face a real challenge to overcome. Why? Because they think, observe, and adapt.

You say you want more difficult dungeons but do you really? Is facing off against an enemy that can think and change vs an enemy that follows a set of rules no matter what really going to scare off everyone and kill the game?

Yes my solution is outside the typical mmo game for pve. But aside from doing that the only thing an mmo game can do to increase its difficulty is place a super tight dps check in place and force everyone to be perfect in their dance of death with the boss.

Tell me, how many tears have mmos drank over the years with such methods? How many bosses have been nerfed because of them?

If you are unwilling to step outside the box you're doomed to wander around the same old boring circles.