Multiple difficulty scaling dungeons

[BigRed5392]

A scaling dungeon system (like Mythic+) is really the way to go. I enjoy dungeons in XIV, but they're just a creation tome farm, no more and no less. I would absolutely love to be able to ratchet up the difficulty and try much harder versions of these dungeons.

Oh and folks? Just because Blizzard implemented a system in their own games, does not make it a horrible idea to implement in XIV.

ff14 got their dungeon set up from WoW... not much is gonna chanhge nor does it benefit anyone outside recent WoW players who are used to it.

[Remedi]

A scaling dungeon system (like Mythic+) is really the way to go. I enjoy dungeons in XIV, but they're just a creation tome farm, no more and no less. I would absolutely love to be able to ratchet up the difficulty and try much harder versions of these dungeons.

Oh and folks? Just because Blizzard implemented a system in their own games, does not make it a horrible idea to implement in XIV.

The result of that implementation however is not really as good as ppl think it is considering that ppl just do their weekly rank 10 or 15 for the cache and then they just stop

also they changed how loot is handled in there several times to avoid ppl abusing low level keystones to proc titanforged items off there

[NocturniaUzuki]

Personally, I find larger pulls more fun because it actually presents something of a challenge, with the reward being a faster clear time.

What I would like to see, however, is the ability to undersize synced content and, more importantly, choose what level the battle syncs too.

Speaking of which, if you want smaller pulls that are somewhat harder, do it on MinIL.

[Voltyblast]

I think this would make a great feature in FFXIV. Similar to Mythic+ system in WoW... I am not saying copy directly from that game but take the basic ideas and features and implement it in a unique way. Right now in FFXIV the dungeons are very easy. Basically in most of the dungeons I see tanks mass pulling the entire mobs until they face a wall and then dps AOE them down. This type of playstyle is very boring and not fun at all.

I agree, it would be a great feature, but for mostly for other reasons which I mentioned in another thread:

....dungeons have no other reason to stay than giving quicker tomes and that's it. Tomestone gear is objectively better than dungeon loot and don't you dare say "b-but it's for catch up on my alt" because it's far quicker to just spend tomes on your secondary classes and the job's done. Also, dungeons give absolutely no incentives to rerun them: there's no achievement, no special items, no unique glamour thingies, absolutely freaking nothing that would incentivize someone to do it again. In fact, Ala Mhigo might be the only dungeon in the entire game where there's some replayability since it drops a mount - the same reason why extreme primals are still alive to this day because if they hadn't those mounts, they'd do the same end of those countless dungeons rotting in your DF.

So yes, dungeon loot should actually give more rewards: glamour, mounts, unique achievements, titles and maybe even good gear, perhaps on the same level of tomestone or even slightly better to incentivize harder difficulties (I always say it: KEEP RAID GEAR IN RAID, what's the freaking point of it if I can get the same gear by upgrading it?!).
Sorry to say this but nobody does things for fun alone, nobody in the entire known universe: there HAS to be some reward behind it and that's why dungeons slowly become rotten data, because they just have nothing else to them besides being the occasional EXP gain or tome. So many dungeons in the game and yet people only run them for exp and that's ONLY because there's no other faster way to gain exp right now (heck dungeons aren't even good until 60 due to POTD). That's really sad if you ask me.

Sure, you can do synch for fun, sure you can run a dungeon in a different setup, sure you can add whatever handicap you want but guess what? There's nothing to gain from it and while you the 1% might like it, the other 99% of the entire playerbase might just not even care and play something entirely different.

Especially when there's no gain in all of this.

[Derio]

Its a MSQ dungeon so it met my expectations of it having very very very simple mechanics and enemies that hit with pillows. And the minimum item level is really low so its to be expected.

[Yeol]

Right now in FFXIV the dungeons are very easy. Basically in most of the dungeons I see tanks mass pulling the entire mobs until they face a wall and then dps AOE them down.

The reason dungeons are easy is because:
(1) Most of them are story dungeons. People will be doing them with low lvl gear. It has to be easy enough for 1st timers.
(2) Daily Roulettes. Now imagine doing a very long and somewhat hard dungeon every day. Not many will like this, especially those that farm them for glamour.

If you are going to create an optional harder dungeon, it has to give good rewards or else it will end up dead like The Diadem.
At the moment, giving gear as a reward is out of the question.

We already get iL330 from creation that can be upgraded to iL340 with tokens from Savage raids and 24-man raid.
Crafted gear which is iL320 is more than enough to clear any current content (Savage was cleared with crafted gear).
Are you going to give them iL335? Not good enough. People that can do these hard dungeons are better off doing Savage for iL340.

We have PoTD. You can do it solo or with a group. SB will introduce the next floors for it in later patches.
PotD gives all sort of rewards. Titles, mounts, minions, tomestones, even EXP. And a challenge on top of that if you go for higher floors. So it will never be dead content.

[Voltyblast]

The reason dungeons are easy is because:
(1) Most of them are story dungeons. People will be doing them with low lvl gear. It has to be easy enough for 1st timers.
(2) Daily Roulettes. Now imagine doing a very long and somewhat hard dungeon every day. Not many will like this, especially those that farm them for glamour.

1) Even more reasons to have different layers for different difficulties: if <nasal voice> story dungeons <end nasal voice> require you to have minimum ilvl, then give us different layers with different requirements. Variation is the spice of life, didn't you know that?
2) If you don't know, Mythic dungeons in wow CANNOT be queued like normal: you need to make up a group manually and go to the dungeon entrance like when you did in vanilla. So those who wanna do daily rouletes will do like always, while those who want a harder challenge will have to actually commit and make a group from zero. I know the idea of working in a group is incredibly scary but if people did it in vanilla, we can do it now.

And one more thing: 335 would be a good incentive actually because not everyone will bother with Savage since it's a lot of time commitment and not everyone is a raider (I used to be one and I don't want to raid anymore: it's too much time spent in something with very low return). Giving gear is absolutely a priority to incentivize players to do more content and just play the game and to be honest, I point the finger at the bad gear balance: 340 it's just too low ilvl for a raid and instead it should be way higher (350-360 at the very least) and everything else should be obtainable via dungeons or even primals (yeah...what about giving primal armors too?)

But if it is as you say, then the game will stagnate and more dead dungeons will come in the years to come.

[JunseiKei]

We already have this spread throughout the game, just not on specifically dungeons alone.

Easy: Job trials, story primals, dungeons (leveling), PotD 1-100.
Medium/ Normal: Dungeons (expert), PotD 101-200.
Above Normal: 24 man raid, normal/story mode raids
Hard: Extreme trials, savage raids.

PotD upper floors is namely learning the gimmick; learn it and its actually just as easy as story quests.

The gap in between each is really small, too, in my opinion. The only things that really change are how much a failed mechanic punishes you (IE: normal omega = vul stack and live-able damage with mitigation; savage = death or vul stack with enough damage to kill you) and how well you can maintain optimal DPS while completing mechanics. I have no idea why people want the same exact fights, but harder. That sounds boring as heck (which primals are a pretty huge offender to this statement).

Bolded is absolutely false. In the context of savage raiding, gear is a means to a goal. Raiders care about gear—including world first raiders—because at some point that gear will be needed to successfully overcome the challenge, but it is not the reason to do the content. Raiders do savage for the challenge, period. If the entire expansion's raid content could be cleared without gear, participation would remain the same. It's not the reason for participation.

They aren't completely wrong. The Second Coil of Bahamut (Savage) that they referred to went largely ignored because it offered absolutely nothing unique. All you gained for completing it was titles tied to each floor- all the drops were the same as those in Second Coil "normal." Only a handful of players did that raid when it was released. Most waited until higher ilevels, if they did it at all. If it was truly about the challenge, more than 5-ish groups would have completed it when it was an actual challenge.

That's probably why they added a weapon with an additional materia slot and a shiny glow for the Unending Coil of Bahamut. It's not about just the challenge.

[loreleidiangelo]

I'd love to see something like Mythic+ dungeons here in XIV, but with the poor linear gear choices we have there's not much sideways wiggle room to give them meaningful rewards, and I don't think they'd be hugely popular without those.

Of late I've come to the conclusion that this game's stale itemization is a BIG part of the reason why our content is so formulaic. Give us gear set bonuses, better secondary stats that actually affect each job in different ways so people build for things that aren't Direct Hit (SB is admittedly better than ARR and HW in this, granted, but improvements can still be made), and IMO work on armor design a bit more and stop shoving the best glamour into crafting only so that glamour farming is realistic even for older content. Do these things and I guarantee the opportunity for fresh content will present itself, since there will be the possibility of "separate but equal or even possibly better" rewards that will entice players into trying it.

[frostmagemari]

Personally, i'd love to see a version of Mythic+ dungeons within the game. People always seem to complain about dungeons (A) not being difficult or (B) having to do the same ones over and over again and being bored.
A mythic+ system would alleviate that somewhat. Maybe it wouldn't be all the dungeons, or even half of them; but if it's more than the current patch's new dungeon then it can be a benefit.

Also.. people who are denouncing it DO know that you don't have to copy+paste the feature and it's reward style directly from the other game, right? SQE can change things to better suit their game. The only arguments against being open to taking a good system and incorporating it in some way is because you don't think the devs can do a good job in making the FFXIV version of a system better than the original; That, or you hate everything that's not FFXIV original systems because you think that if SQE didn't come up with it, it's not a worthwhile system... Despite the fact that XIV 2.0 wouldn't have existed at all if they didn't look at other games and their existing working systems.