Selling Runs and Clears

[Enla]

I really don't get this idea that clear groups don't help out the community. Back when Titan EX was still current it was only through the grace of a really sweet clear group who queued for practice that I even managed to clear it the first time. I had been pounding away at it for hours to no avail, and yet as soon as they popped in all cheerful and bushy eyed the night turned about almost instantly. I paid nothing, just happened to get lucky with who I was grouped with, and yet they still did me an immense favor none the less with no money required. These days I've gotten decent enough that I can push progression on my own if I put my mind to it and would never pay for a carry even if it was the only option available. However I understand the appeal carry groups represent and am glad they exist. Hell, one of my friends used to sell carry groups for Coil and she certainly 'gave back' to the community when she had the time.

Ultimately it's exceedingly selfish in my eyes to lambaste people for capitalizing on their skill because it doesn't benefit /you/ in some immediate fashion.

[Yeol]

Isnt that the type of content you want to clear with a static or friends or even a learning PF group? Ya know cheer real loud when you guys finally get it?

Not everyone wants that feeling. It takes time and skill to clear such content.
Some are not into battle jobs at all, but more into crafting and gathering. This is how they made all that Gil to buy clears, mounts, and loot in the first place.

Others just buy Gil from RMT (Which is against the ToS), then buy everything the game as to offer.

Different people have different ways of getting what they want. Some want it now and fast with no effort. Others want to get it with time and team effort.

[Zarabeth]

There is a huge difference between helping the community versus selling clears. I have yet to see a player charge another player to clear a dungeon or any story-related content. FFXIV's community is pretty helpful with these. Selling comes into place when someone needs to be carried in an extreme/savage duty because their gear or skill level is too low and they want a mount or clear anyways. The sellers are essentially operating as a full party with 1 "dud" player. It's not too easy considering.

From reading these forums for a while I've figured out that we on Leviathan have a really nice community. People are generally nice and help each other out. Yes some people sell runs and clears but far more just help.

Also I've known some people who sell clears and they are decent people too. This is just how they make gil. Since Stormblood has come out I've made over 50 million gil just by selling glamour prisms. How is that different than selling runs?

[BillyKaplan]

From reading these forums for a while I've figured out that we on Leviathan have a really nice community. People are generally nice and help each other out. Yes some people sell runs and clears but far more just help.

You're going to find that on every server and every data center. I join Sephirot ex and Susano ex clearing/learning parties even though I have my clears, and those parties fill with other people who cleared as well.
However, keep in mind that no matter how nice people are, how many clear parties you might put together, you might just not get a good enough party. Clear-sellers also cater to people like that who do have the skill and knowledge of the fight, just have gosh darned rotten luck. It has nothing to do with how nice people are, niceness doesn't clear mechanics nor does it contribute to dps.

[PotatoTree]

I see no issue at all in selling runs. The seller is providing a service using an in game skill. The buyer is using some other skill (assuming it's legit money) such as crafting to trade for the seller's skills.

It's no different than making some friends and having them carry you though a few runs.

Lots of the big twitch personalities (some even have appeared in official interviews at fanfests) have sold runs and have even streamed it. It's no biggie really.

The only place where this can be an issue is if other players are detrimentally affected by people clearing. For example, people buying win trades in PvP.

[GetFoesReqd]

I'm sure this has been said a few times, but selling runs for gil is acceptable and honestly useful for some. The line is at real money. I am aware of the fact of people selling runs for actual dollars, just like there are those who sell houses for actual dollars as well, at least on some servers. That should be a bannable offense, and might actually be already. But if all they're asking for is in-game currency for in-game work that the game itself literally spews all over the place, then great. It is no different than paying for any other in-game service legitimately, so go crazy.

[RamothElggur]

I find it really amusing that people compare Selling Content with RMT. Ever Since ARR was out Selling Content was a thing. "supply and demand" it is that easy. Where the moeny comes from is not the Problem of those people who sell the Content, even if Sell run ould be forbidden, RMT will stille xcist and people wills till buy it for a simple reason: People prefer the easy way of achieving what they want.

i am not a fan of carrrying people through, but if the coin plays a role in there, that is a different story :P.

people who are putting this on par with RMT are just hypocrites imo

[BillyKaplan]

That should be a bannable offense, and might actually be already.

It is. Like you said, the line is at real money, for SE as well.

[Ilan]

This. I will dance happily the day they outlaw and terminate runsellers accounts. There is zero difference between a runseller and rmts. They are both exploiting cheaters.

Where is it cheating to carry someone through content (who is unable or unwilling to do it himself) and take some gil for it? Or is it for you already a cheat to carry someone through content? Because then i have to report myself and my friends for cheating almost everytime one of us goes into the DF to do roulettes or something.

They are traiding a simple service for ingame currency and thats completly fine. If you want to ban stuff like that you also have to ban everyone who sells crafted stuff in the mb.

[ArkNova]

For what its worth, I asked a GM about sell runs back in 2.0 when sell runs were rampant including members in my ls doing them and the GM said as long as no RMT gil was being used to pay for the runs then they're fine.