Restrict Personal Houses to 1 Per Server!

[Searban]

I don't think I'm any more deserving than anyone else who uses their home, but I do get really annoyed seeing dozens and dozens of empty unused houses in Shirogane on my realm. Every house available was bought up in less than ten minutes, and over half of them are still sitting completely empty. Way more than half. I don't know why people rush to buy a house they are just going to ignore. Is it an e-peen thing? If you get a house, you should USE it. THAT is what irritates me so much about this whole issue. Yes, I have two houses. But I use both of them every single day. I'm sorry if you think its selfish or whatever, but I am not giving up one of my homes that I worked really hard to get and really hard to decorate. If that means I do have to buy it on an alt account I will.

And yet large part of what you have been arguing for here comes down to just that. Because they don't play with their houses enough (by your standards) or didn't put enough effort into getting one (again, by your standards). And as much as you don't care about players that don't own houses, they won't care about your claims that you deserve to own more than 1 plot if they consider you a part of the general housing problem. Which you are.

As for why some owned plots still stand empty in Shirogane, there are a few possible explanations. Some were bought by house flippers. Some were bought by people with multiple plots on multiple characters. They will return to that particular character and that particular house to decorate eventually. Maybe. And finally, the simplest explanation of them all - it has only been 2 weeks since 4.1 arrived. For some players a house will be an ongoing project of sorts. Some have less play time available and will take longer to decorate their plots. Some saved enough gil for a plot, but not enough to decorate it (hardly a difficult thing to imagine if costs of furnishing can easily surpass that of the plot alone). Did they have to rush to buy a plot? Yes. Because within constraints of the current housing system taking advantage of those brief windows when new wards are added is the only semi-reliable way to get a plot. I suspect some of the plots might have also been snatched by players that may want/need house in the future. For the same reason - there might not be a reliable way for them to buy a house at a later date, when they decide they actually want/need it.

While it might be implemented, no way they would be dumb enough to FORCE relinquishment - you just wouldn't be able to purchase more. Honestly, I wouldn't mind them implementing such a change as long as the do away with the auto demo timer...would save me $$$.

The big question here is whether it would actually be a dumb thing to do for them. Would some players get upset about such a change? Of course, but for every 1 angry owner of 2 plots there would be 1 player happy with the change. For every 1 angry owner of 3 plots there would be 2 players happy with the change. And so on. Would it cause a stir within the community? There is a stir caused by the problems housing system has already anyway. Would there be bad press? Probably. However, the bad press is also here already, drawn in by the housing crisis.

I've said it before, I might as well repeat myself: in a subscription-based MMO, where needs of many will always outweigh needs of a few, a move like this would certainly be controversial, but likely justifiable from the business point of view. I'm not saying SE will do it, but if they do I won't be surprised either.

The demolition timer is not going to go anywhere though. Not as long as the housing system is as inefficient as it is.

Now, on the general tone of the discussion here. I've been following it for some time now and as far as I can see the entire line of argument used by multiple plot owners relies on 2 claims. First, that they didn't break any rules. Second, that they don't deserve to be punished. I'm going to start with the latter.

Can we talk about what constitutes a punishment? Because at this point you're trying to label a change you wouldn't like as a punishment towards you. If they were take your additional plots away while reimbursing their full value to you it would merely be an attempt at restoring certain status quo in order to provide at least a band aid to an inefficient housing system. Sure, you could argue that you are loosing time invested into decorating your additional plots, but that's pretty much all about it. SE could even remove their housing system entirely while reimbursing players for it and no one would be able to claim being punished either.

And that brings us to the other point - the rules and whether any of them were broken. Of course they weren't. But just as you are aware that everything you've done so far was well within the existing set of rules imposed by SE you should be aware than SE can modify that set of rules however they want. That includes changing rules and applying them retroactively. They're well within their rights to do it, it's something all players accept by agreeing to EULA, ToS and every other document thrown their way when they buy a game and register an account.

[Niraves]

I don't care about players that buy houses and do nothing with them. Two weeks is more than enough time to do SOMETHING with the plot. Since the patch dropped I've made over 80 million gil just selling furniture, two of the small Shirogane Castle Walls and a few other odds and ends. Well some players don't craft, you say? Neither did I, until I decided that I wanted to start looking into housing in this game and I realised how expensive it was. So I leveled gatherers and leveled crafters and saved up every gil that I could because having a house, with all the nice furnishings and decorations that I wanted, was important to me.

I get it that some people don't have massive amounts of gil to throw into a house, maybe they spent every gil they had to buy the plot. But 51 empty plots out of 60 in a ward? That's ridiculous and it's unfair to players that wanted a house but couldn't beat the queue because of lobby errors or other factors. Every mansion in the ward my personal house is in is entirely empty. Every. Single. One. And I know, me having two houses means one other person didn't get to have one, but from what I can see there is a heck of a lot more empty houses than just the one extra one that I own. If people would stop buying houses and leaving them sitting empty, maybe there would be more players who actually use their house in the wards. That seems more like the issue with housing than someone owning an extra plot.

Honestly the entire housing system is stupid. This entire debate can all be laid at SEs feet because they are too stubborn to just get rid of the wards entirely and instance housing so its available to every player who wants to have a house. Or make the wards FC only, and make all personal housing instanced. Or do what they said they were going to do with apartments and generate more wards as needed automatically. This game makes plenty of money, theres no reason that we should be force fed the same old tired 'server limitations' crap every time we need a feature to be improved on.

[Searban]

I don't care about players that buy houses and do nothing with them. Two weeks is more than enough time to do SOMETHING with the plot. Since the patch dropped I've made over 80 million gil just selling furniture, two of the small Shirogane Castle Walls and a few other odds and ends. Well some players don't craft, you say? Neither did I, until I decided that I wanted to start looking into housing in this game and I realised how expensive it was. So I leveled gatherers and leveled crafters and saved up every gil that I could because having a house, with all the nice furnishings and decorations that I wanted, was important to me.

What is your point exactly? That a player should be required have a certain level of weekly income before buying a house? Not that having a decent weekly income is particularly difficult, but it will be much lower if you aren't a crafter (and becoming a dedicated crafter requires a fairly significant investment on its own).

Honestly, long as the new plot owner intends to actively work on his house at his own pace but in foreseeable future, I don't see an issue. People that bought their plots purely maintain an empty house as a status symbol are a different matter entirely. However, if all they do is owning a single plot one might argue they simply maintain their point of access to the housing system (regardless of whether they intend to make use of it or not) which has been one of more prominent features for this game for the past few years and a fairly significant selling point for the entire last expansion. Even if we were to agree that those players are in fact one of the problems within constraints of the current housing system that doesn't mean that multiple plots owners aren't one as well. Trying to suggest otherwise is an attempt at shifting the blame at best.

On another note, there is a fairly good chance that some (I'm not going to speculate about percentages here, we don't have nearly enough data on this issue to make any assumptions on the matter) of those empty houses people notice in Shirogane are in the hands of people that own multiple plots on multiple alts because they don't break any rules.

[Niraves]

What is your point exactly? That a player should be required have a certain level of weekly income before buying a house? Not that having a decent weekly income is particularly difficult, but it will be much lower if you aren't a crafter (and becoming a dedicated crafter requires a fairly significant investment on its own).

I didn't say anything about having a weekly income. I simply said that making gil in this game isn't exactly difficult. Yes, I am a crafter and that makes it easier, but there is nothing stopping anyone else from crafting, or gathering, or doing their weekly challenge logs which literally rain gil down on you. I haven't been given one solid reason why I would want to relinquish my alts house. Why in the hell would I want to give up something I worked my butt off to get? Because Mr. Random Internet Person is mad that he doesn't have a house? That's not my fault. You want a house, do the work. Stop trying to take houses from people who legitimately earned them.

You can call it blame shifting, call it a duck for all I care. The simple facts are, we multiple plot owners did NOT violate the ToS. And yea, SE is free to change the housing rules to 1 house per account, it's their game and they can do what they want. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to fight tooth and nail for the plots that I worked my ass off to get. If they do end up implementing this change all that means for me is I have to buy my alts house on my second account, and thats what I'll do. 3 million and change isn't a big deal to me. It's just a bunch of crap that people who worked hard to get their houses are basically being told, well sorry about all the time and effort you put into getting your house on your alt, but because I don't have a house you shouldn't get to keep yours.

SE has made some pretty stupid decisions regarding housing. Taking away plots from the people who aren't even using them seems like a hell of a lot better option than to just take away someones alts house that they use daily. But we'll just have to wait and see. Personally, I hope SE doesn't do this, because not everyone has a second account like I do to be able to keep their houses if this change goes through. And based off what I've seen in my wards, 80% of the people who bought houses in Shirogane don't deserve them.

I don't care what excuse they have. A 100% empty house is just ridiculous, even if it's only been two weeks. The housing vendor sells some really nice furniture for really cheap if you're on a budget, but to have literally nothing in a mansion? Yeah, I don't care what anyone says, thats crap and that player doesn't deserve that house.

[worldofneil]

A 100% empty house is just ridiculous, even if it's only been two weeks.

You'd hate my house then. I bought a medium in Shirogane, mainly for the two garden plots (and as a bonus it's right next to our FC house and it has a convenient teleport location). My garden is decorated and I've used both gardens every single day, but I've only stepped inside the house 2, maybe 3 times and it's still completely empty.

I will get round to decorating it, but I'm not in any great rush, I see that as more of a long term project. The house is also locked from guests (since what's the point... it's empty...), but for all they know it's fully decorated inside

[Leloa]

You'd hate my house then. I bought a medium in Shirogane, mainly for the two garden plots (and as a bonus it's right next to our FC house and it has a convenient teleport location). My garden is decorated and I've used both gardens every single day, but I've only stepped inside the house 2, maybe 3 times and it's still completely empty.

I will get round to decorating it, but I'm not in any great rush, I see that as more of a long term project. The house is also locked from guests (since what's the point... it's empty...), but for all they know it's fully decorated inside

It's sad that there is a lot like you there... I would love to burn these house down to make them availble plots again for people who need them for more than gardening and wish SE would add gardening to some other ways to the game :C

[Abelfei]

(in regards to vacant and "unused" houses.)

I can see both sides to this. For people that would truly cherish the use of a house, this can be a slap in the face. However, it IS completely within the owners rights to use it or decorate it as little or as much as they want. As someone who uses his house amap, I cant imagine why someone couldn't furnish it, and why they wouldn't want to. Like others have said, the NPC furniture is cheap, and getting enough gil to furnish any house shouldn't take but minutes, regardless of quality of furnishings. I agree with the sentiment, but people should have 100% discretion on the use of their house, not their neighbors.

[Searban]

I didn't say anything about having a weekly income. I simply said that making gil in this game isn't exactly difficult. Yes, I am a crafter and that makes it easier, but there is nothing stopping anyone else from crafting, or gathering, or doing their weekly challenge logs which literally rain gil down on you. I haven't been given one solid reason why I would want to relinquish my alts house. Why in the hell would I want to give up something I worked my butt off to get? Because Mr. Random Internet Person is mad that he doesn't have a house? That's not my fault. You want a house, do the work. Stop trying to take houses from people who legitimately earned them.

Ah, there it is. The final argument to end all arguments. How a house owner earned every single plot in his or her collection. With how plots distribution works under the current housing system you've won a lotter (especially if it's a Shirogane house). You may employ all the mental gymnastics you want, but winning a lottery isn't earning things. Just because you and that Random Internet Person did exactly the same things and followed exactly the same steps. You have your house, that Random Interned Person doesn't. Does it mean he didn't earn it and you did? Nope, it just means he wasn't lucky enough. At this point I'm beginning to hope SE can be convinced to go through with this proposed change simply because arguments employed by multiple plots owners are getting worse by the day.

You haven't said anything about a weekly income, but you're getting upset over the fact that people may not have the money to spend on house decorations 2 weeks after obtaining their plots. How dare they not have enough money yet. How dare they not be willing to spend money on cheap items they don't want to satisfy your aesthetic needs regarding plots that aren't yours. Outrageous.

You haven't been given any reasons why you'd want to relinquish your additional plots because just as you don't care about players that couldn't get theirs none of the players involved in this discussion care about you or what you want. No one is trying to convince you because: a) that would be a futile attempt anyway; b) you're not the one that needs to be convinced, devs are. That's how feedback works.

SE has made some pretty stupid decisions regarding housing. Taking away plots from the people who aren't even using them seems like a hell of a lot better option than to just take away someones alts house that they use daily. But we'll just have to wait and see. Personally, I hope SE doesn't do this, because not everyone has a second account like I do to be able to keep their houses if this change goes through. And based off what I've seen in my wards, 80% of the people who bought houses in Shirogane don't deserve them.

Assuming that people loosing plots would be upset about the whole deal one way or another taking 2 plots away from 1 player is always going to be better option than taking 2 plots from 2 different players from the point of view SE have. Again, needs of many vs needs of the few.

That those 2 players don't deserve their plots? They've won them in the great lottery of post-maintenance rush therefore they've earned them. And here I thought you aren't more deserving than other house owners.

[Niraves]

Ah, there it is. The final argument to end all arguments. How a house owner earned every single plot in his or her collection. With how plots distribution works under the current housing system you've won a lotter (especially if it's a Shirogane house). You may employ all the mental gymnastics you want, but winning a lottery isn't earning things. Just because you and that Random Internet Person did exactly the same things and followed exactly the same steps. You have your house, that Random Interned Person doesn't. Does it mean he didn't earn it and you did? Nope, it just means he wasn't lucky enough. At this point I'm beginning to hope SE can be convinced to go through with this proposed change simply because arguments employed by multiple plots owners are getting worse by the day.

I spent months camping aetherytes every hour on the hour whenever I was online. Months. I earned my plot on my alt and I got lucky with my plot on my main, but no way in hell am I giving up either of them. My Shirogane house for my main, yes, I did get lucky with that one. I got one of the last small plots available after I managed to get through two lobby errors and a 2k+ queue. At least I actually use mine, which is more than can be said for a lot of people. It's not like I rushed out to buy up a ward full of houses that I never go to or only bother to go there once every 45 days to reset the timer.

You haven't said anything about a weekly income, but you're getting upset over the fact that people may not have the money to spend on house decorations 2 weeks after obtaining their plots. How dare they not have enough money yet. How dare they not be willing to spend money on cheap items they don't want to satisfy your aesthetic needs regarding plots that aren't yours. Outrageous.

Yeah. I am upset about it. I'm friends with an FC that wanted to upgrade their medium plot to a large, but no one could beat the queue in time to get a mansion anywhere. People rushed in to snap up all the large/medium plots and now they are sitting there empty. Frankly, I don't care what crap excuse people have for it, but two weeks is more than enough time to do SOMETHING with your plot. If you can't be bothered to 'deal with it', then don't buy it and let someone who actually plans to use it buy the land. Just my two gil.

Regardless, you can have your opinion and I'll keep mine. What either of us has to say isn't going to make one lick of difference anyway, SE will do what they want and we'll adapt to it as needed.

[Siniztor]

Ah, there it is. The final argument to end all arguments. How a house owner earned every single plot in his or her collection. With how plots distribution works under the current housing system you've won a lotter (especially if it's a Shirogane house). You may employ all the mental gymnastics you want, but winning a lottery .

weird won no lottery here unless you mean i know how to walk up to a sign .. there wasn't ah housing shortage on most loq pop servers there was 200-400 empty plots when i got mine