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  1. #1
    Player
    EdwinLi's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Chloe Li
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    Balmung
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    Machinist Lv 100

    [4.1 Spoilers] The Two Personalities

    SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Below is spoiler zone!

    ________________________________________________________________________






    So with the reveal that Yotsuyu now lost her memory and a new personality has been "born" as Tsuyu how do you think this story may develop later.

    It is a interesting take on Yotsuyu's "death" and "rebirth" through memory loss but the way I see it this may lead to a conflict between the two Personalities with one becoming the dominant personality (my guess it will be Tsuyu who remains and Yotsuyu's personality fades away) if she ever gains back fragments or her entire memories and how people will be judging Tsuyu through her past life as Yotsuyu and current life as Tsuyu.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    DarsanaOfARKS's Avatar
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    Oct 2017
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    Darsana Mjirneo
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    Sargatanas
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    Rogue Lv 70
    I heard there's foreshadowing of what might take place in future updates to the story. Who would know if Yotsuyu might remember everything and that persona driven her to impulse-- Being a spy again... I'm not saying she might return to evil roots, mayhap she done it on panic before realizing she and Doma is free...
    That's my opinion
    (1)

  3. #3
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    LineageRazor's Avatar
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    Lineage Razor
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    Gilgamesh
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    Goldsmith Lv 90
    I'll admit that I'm a bit disappointed with this turn. It's a fairly cliché moral dilemma: If someone becomes a new person, are they still culpable for the crimes they committed before the change? The problem is that most of the vehicles used for this transition are rather far-fetched and fanciful - amnesia being a prime example. So, Yotsuyu is a new person, and the psychopath she was is apparently gone. Some folks are still gonna want to see her pay for her crimes, whether motivated by vengeance or justice, and others are gonna say that she already HAS paid, since Yotsuyu as we knew her is dead, and any further punishment would be inflicted upon an innocent (aka, new, childlike Yotsuyu).

    It's tough for me to get emotionally invested in these kinds of moral questions, since the likelihood of it ever happening for real are so slim. It's like getting worked up over the possibility that your kid could be struck dead by a meteor while playing outside - a horrible tragedy if it happened, but so preposterously unlikely that few rational individuals will lose any sleep over the possibility.

    Maybe I'm jumping the gun. Perhaps the focus WON'T be on whether she should be punished for her crimes or not. Hopefully, SE has something interesting planned, but for now my expectations are pretty low.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    alimdia's Avatar
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    Ali Lifesaver
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    Gilgamesh
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    Marauder Lv 80
    There's no indication that the amnesia is permanent, so there's no reason to treat it as a split personality (yet)
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Naria's Avatar
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    Gridania
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    Naria Starcatcher
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    Sargatanas
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    Sage Lv 100
    Personally I'm in the hoping that she hasn't lost her memory and is simply using her skills as a spy to play Gosetsu so she has a chance to continue her revenge against Doma camp. The route of amnesiac villain+plus tragic backstory=redemption is something I've seen several times before and it is very difficult in to do well. Same with the something happens/happened to the villain and causes them to have a split personality. Considering the typical amount of MSQs that SE does in a patch, I don't really know if they have enough between 4.2-4.4ish to make it anything other than cliche, while at the same time trying to wrap up everything else.
    (1)
    Last edited by Naria; 10-18-2017 at 04:05 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
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    Light Khah
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    Moogle
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    Arcanist Lv 91
    I honestly dont like this change to her..I already felt quite bad when I saw that she survived because I got the bad feeling that they would try to even redeem a person like her..seeing her amnesia this seems even more likely now and I dont feel good about this.

    I just think about how I would feel if a mass murderer (maybe killed someone you know and love) gets out of prison because they bumped their head against the wall too often and lost their memories. That person ruined the life of a lot of other families and they cant even get some kind of justice because the murderer cant remember a thing and is set free. Yotsuyu is even worse than that because she tormented a whole nation and enjoyed it too. Having all the people letting go of her grudge would just feel unrealistic and like a cheap way out of this.

    I really hope that Hien and the others will stay on high alert around her and not discuss important information when she is with them, because how should they ever be sure that her memories would not just come back or her faking it? Them being carefree around her would make me lose quite the respect for them.

    About split personality: Nothing was hinted right now that she has that. And I a honestly not sure if SE would be able to show this in a great way.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    LineageRazor's Avatar
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    Lineage Razor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Alleo View Post
    I just think about how I would feel if a mass murderer (maybe killed someone you know and love) gets out of prison because they bumped their head against the wall too often and lost their memories.
    Well... One way to look at it (and the way SE will likely go with if they DO decide to use this as a method of "redemption") is that the mass murderer has DIED. Their body is still up and moving around, but someone completely new is inside of it.

    It's not really redemption at all. Yotsuyu died and a new person named Tsuyu was born within her body. Yes, people might be resentful - but it's the same kind of resentment they would have felt if Yotsuyu had died before they had a chance to punish her to their satisfaction. The big difference is that now there's this Yotsuyu-shaped innocent person handy that they can take out their frustrations on.

    That's the way that these amnesia-induced-innocence stories generally play out. The stories often try to play it all up as a big moral grey area, but honestly, there's no grey at all. If Yotsuyu's memories are truly gone, then punishing the new person she has become for the crimes of a person who no longer exists is evil, plain and simple. Such punishment would only be pursued by individuals who either don't believe the change has happened, or are refusing to believe it because they want to satisfy their thirst for vengeance and don't much care who they have to hurt to get that satisfaction. It's become revenge by proxy - taking out revenge on an innocent third party, because the individual you'd like to take revenge on is out of reach.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
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    Miyo Mohzolhi
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    Sophia
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    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    Such punishment would only be pursued by individuals who either don't believe the change has happened, or are refusing to believe it because they want to satisfy their thirst for vengeance and don't much care who they have to hurt to get that satisfaction. It's become revenge by proxy - taking out revenge on an innocent third party, because the individual you'd like to take revenge on is out of reach.
    One way to think about it: if the criminal hit their head against a wall and died, would anyone be justified in punishing their corpse? (The way the MSQ presents the mention of angry Ala Mhigans attempting to dig up Zenos's grave, the answer would appear to be "no, but people will try anyway".)

    What about if the criminal went into a coma instead? With permanent brain damage that meant whatever light is in there is completely and irreversibly gone? Would the punishment be meted out upon the shell of the body where they once resided? If they are to be killed anyway, would it make a difference whether or not they're still breathing, if they are already beyond caring?

    It's a variation on the age-old philosophical debate on how much of a person is their body, and how much is their "soul" (for varying definitions of "soul"). This particular plotline has the addition of a third party who just happens to be inhabiting the body of the criminal, through whatever means. Is Thancred responsible for the time Lahabrea was inhabiting his body?

    Then we get into continuity of consciousness, such as whether the person you are now is the same as the person you are yesterday (or five minutes ago), or the person you were when you were two years old. Is a person the same before and after they are Tempered by a Primal? Is the Qalyana Broodmother the same person as before she was Tempered by Lakshmi? What about before and just after her daughter was killed?

    And then we go into more speculative realms, such as whether Tsuyu will continue to be Tsuyu, or if the Yotsuyu personality will return. In which case, which is the "true" personality, and which is the one that has to be sacrificed to punish the criminal? If Yotsuyu comes back, can we also assume Tsuyu will never return?

    Obviously there are no real definite answers to any of these questions that can be applied across the board, since as always, specific context matters. In this case, I think the primary concern is whether Yotsuyu the Doma-Hater is still in there somewhere, ready to return. We have no information on that yet, and the answer to that (including "we don't know") will be what determines what is "proper justice" for Yotsuyu.
    (1)
    Last edited by YianKutku; 10-19-2017 at 01:49 PM. Reason: 1k character limit

  9. #9
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
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    Light Khah
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    Moogle
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    Arcanist Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    Well... One way to look at it (and the way SE will likely go with if they DO decide to use this as a method of "redemption") is that the mass murderer has DIED. Their body is still up and moving around, but someone completely new is inside of it.
    I do understand that position but I still feel bad about such plot. I mean would this also be done with a dictator that killed millions of people? Where does it stop? How would that person even be able to live their "new" life if everyone knows what they did but cant maybe forgive them for that?

    It just feels so fake and cheap imo. You have a sadistic character in the story and instead of giving her the necessary judgment for her actions she might get free thanks to amnesia. It just doesnt sit well to me.
    (1)
    Letter from the Producer LIVE Part IX Q&A Summary (10/30/2013)
    Q: Will there be any maintenance fees or other costs for housing, besides the cost of the land and house?
    A: In older MMOs, such as Ultima Online, there was a house maintenance fee you had to pay weekly, but in FFXIV: ARR we decided against this system. Similarly, these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

  10. #10
    Player
    Vexander's Avatar
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    Sharlyan
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    Character
    Rin Black
    World
    Balmung
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    Samurai Lv 90
    If Yotsuyu is to be redeemed my personal hope is that she ends up in Eorzea rather than Doma. I just can't see her remaining in Doma even if she has this new identity due to amnesia. I suppose she could end up a Scion.
    (0)

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