Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.1

Lots of quotes from others, all collapsed into a single spoiler block for convenience. Entirely about the MSQ, for context.

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I don't think many expected Fordola to keep on being evil for its own sake, either, but I appreciate the balance of "You'll never have my forgiveness, but you have my thanks", and being tortured by the forced empathy of the Echo is a playful twist even if it's not what everyone might find to be "redemptive". It's a nice way to represent her choices in how to fight for Ala Mhigo and how it played out. In that vein, the solo battlefield was excellent.

I'm surprisingly neutral on Fordola's story arc, despite having been interested to see how it would go earlier on. I don't dislike it as such, but it feels a bit like I've seen it before in other works. In fact, I probably have seen it before, considering the sheer amount of SF&F media I consume.

It feels like I could predict the general flow of the plotline after only a few key phrases and sentences, and all that's left is to see how it applies specifically to FFXIV's setting. And yet, it does it in an inoffensive way, so I don't feel uncomfortable watching a train-wreck in progress. Just a feeling of "oh, they're going to say something like- yeah, there's another checkbox ticked."

I did appreciate how the Echo/Resonance meant we could compress a lot of moralizing and justifications between the back-and-forth of "You don't know me" and "I know you better than you think", all into a few flashbacks. The one about Fordola's past was a little too obvious and drawn-out for me, but the summary flash-slides of the WoL's journey thus far that Fordola saw nicely got to the point.

It does make the Echo even more of a narrative device, since it apparently only activates if it makes for a good story; as in, not because it makes the story more interesting, but because it makes the story more efficient. Presumably the Echo of Fordola's past we see is exactly the same one Arenvald saw back in 4.0, and repeated just for our sakes.

(And how far we've come, when the Echo visions used to completely knock us out early in ARR, and now we just kind of wince for a moment.)

Arenvald continues to grow into a great character; I'm hoping he survives until the end ... just because he was there at the beginning.

I'm going into major unsupported speculation, but I keep getting the feeling that if Arenvald does survive, he's going to be a great companion (narratively, at least) for Fordola. Mainly because he also has the Echo (and thus can understand some of Fordola's Resonance problems), and he's one of the first to not see Fordola as a complete monster deserving of only death. His impassioned pleas early in this patch in Fordola's cell was critical to setting the scene for the audience to see Fordola in a different light.

That stinger, though. Tsuyu is off to a ...strange... start; retrograde amnesia (if that's indeed what this is) is usually a cheap and easy plot device (and one overplayed for how rarely it actually occurs), but between all she's been through psychologically and the physical trauma of the building collapse let's give it the benefit of doubt and see where it goes. Psychogenic fugue is not the worst direction to take her in, and they haven't played that trope card to death in this game, yet.

I've seen this several times in various SF&F stories, although I concede that it's been around a lot longer than that, as a key point in philosophy. The core question is whether Tsuyu is responsible for Yotsuyu's actions, which goes deeper into whether Tsuyu is the same person, philosophically speaking, as Yotsuyu.

Which probably would not be a hair many Domans would bother splitting. So we get Yotsuyu/Tsuyu stuck with Gosetsu, who just happens to be of the right temperament not to hold a grudge.

It's a marked difference from how Fordola was treated by the story, certainly.

Apparently you can breathe and communicate via linkpearl underwater.

We can communicate via linkpearl without saying a word, based on some flavour text in the occasional sidequest. The other party just assumes we're the quiet type and effectively reads our minds to guess what we mean to say.

That, or just assume we'll agree to whatever they say, which is usually the case.

In this situation, though, I do wonder if our words get the distortion effect sounds do underwater (due to the different medium).

Originally Posted by Fenral

Arenvald's (Japanese) voice is still way too cute for a male Highlander.

It had been some time since the 4.0 story, so I didn't remember what Arenvald sounded like. So when he spoke up in a voiced cutscene at the beginning, it just felt a bit weird how this big Highlander with a tragic past sounded like an eager teenage boy.

Especially when I imagined him talking (in the non-voiced cutscene) about how his mother basically abused and abandoned him.

Originally Posted by Clawtooth

Also, anyone any idea who the painting in the Trove was of? I'm assuming the Mad King, but I'm not sure.

The painting, if anyone missed it (spoilered for size):

That is some amazing hair.

Originally Posted by Cilia

The Mad King's treasure trove, having never been mentioned before, was a slight curveball. I noticed Skalla's treasure room in the trailer, though, so I figured it would end up being down there.

I admit I expected Skalla to be in some distant corner of Gyr Abania (relative to the places we go to in the MSQ), rather than directly below Ala Mhigo.

I didn't take note during the earlier trash pulls, but the trash later in the dungeon definitely had the "Transfiguration" buff, the same as what we had when we used the magic circles to cross the chasms. Except theirs is permanent, at least until we killed them.

Adds just that bit more horror into the whole thing.

Game-mechanics-wise, does anyone know if the Hydro Push/Pull casts are a genuine mislabelled bug, or are the encounter designers deliberately trolling us?

Funny thing is that early on in the patch story someone mentions Zenos' corpse being dug up by some Ala Mhigans for... some reason... so it might actually not be there anymore... are we going to have to fight Zombie Zenos?

Image spoilered for size:

M'naago's vague words imply that some people did try to dig up Zenos's corpse to do horrible things to it, but they were stopped in time. And the significant pause before "grim" suggests there was violence involved in the stopping.

MSQ Spoilers

I was generally happy with Fordola's story, and particularly pleased to see myself included in quick flashbacks. As an aside, I've been recently replaying through ARR/HW/SB on an alt, and I'm currently up to the Ruby Sea and, each time the credits rolled, I felt a pang to see me in the screenshots they used for the backdrop. Maybe that will be forthcoming at the end of 4.x? A little bit like the end of FF15.... Oh, and there's a line early in Stormblood from M'Naago, who called Raubahn "the legend" to his face, so that nicely strengthens the patch title.

Back on track, I stay on the English dub, and I think it was pretty excellent. Arenvald, Lyse, Fordola, Raubahn, and Nanamo all stood out for me. I agree with Moose - it was a much more accomplished x.1 patch than others we've had. Again, going back to my replay, As Goes Light, So Goes Darkness is a particularly weak arc by comparison. I think having a dungeon in the MSQ helped a lot, and the end battle with Lakshmi was a very nice retread of the mechanics of the normal and extreme encounters.

Yotsuyu...

Well, I see a few possibilities. It is either faked (with or without Gosetsu's knowledge - which could open up a whole new can of wyrms) or it is entirely legitimate. By going back to Doma so soon, the situation will come to the boil pretty quickly, I suspect.

And on the subject of looking forward, we're almost certainly heading for our version of Nuremburg (trials, not rallies). Laurientis and Yuyuhase are due their comeuppance, and Fordola elected to go straight back to her cell. Can Ala Mhigo and the Alliance be seen to mete out even handed justice? I was also pleased to see some hints of an answer to the question I posed in the anthem lyrics topic about the state of information/misinformation within the Empire. I groaned a bit at the thought that Elidibus is masquerading as Zenos (putting the clues of his body being dug up and the conversation between the two imperials) but for the mask-removal gag to work, he needs to be wearing a face that we know. I hope these are just red herrings; I liked where Zenos ended in 4.0, and I'm not sure he needs revisiting.

MSQ's:

EDIT:

Nevermind, the spoiler tags aren't working for me for some strange reason...

MSQ

I'm quite satisfied how the story went, although I'm kinda dissappointed Lyse's growth is not often shown onscreen which is my biggest problem for her character. Except from her being more eloquent, it's not clear if she has moved past her naive idealism or not, especially since the role of 'naive revolution fighter' was taken from her by Yugiri by the time of Yanxia, and Lyse's growth shifted to her becoming a leader after that, which was sudden for my liking. At the very least, I'm glad I don't have to worry she'd blabber things without thinking again.

Nanamo's plotline is my most favorite in this story patch; not only we're shown of her determination to become a better ruler, a lot of things about the Syndicate and their past actions were also become clear. Their main motive is always profit, not necessarily to themselves but also to Ul'dah. That's why they refused to give aid to Ala Mhigan refugees or to grant asylum to the Domans; Ul'dah would profit little, if at all from such good gesture, and would only sow seeds of mistrust among the people. We also get to see another side of Lolorito. Sure, he's shrewd businessman and politician, but he's not unreasonable and surprisingly willing to help people, with price of course, but no one can argue when the deal can benefit both sides. Nanamo and Raubahn made terrible mistake of distancing themselves from the Syndicate.

Admittedly, seeing Godbert with <gasp> pants almost gave me a heartache, and my heart stopped beating when he gave Nanamo advice in total, normal way of speaking. I guess you don't have a seat among the Syndicate without knowing a manner or two.

Maybe I'm in minority here, but I feel bad for the Qalyana broodmother. She lost her daughter and cried out for bliss in summoning Lakhsmi, having her daugher resurrected without soul, and becoming a thrall and had to be cut down. I draw a parallel between her and Rielle's mother from DRK quests, both grieving mothers who sought solace in worship. It also gives the dev team excuse why there are still Qalyana enemies.

A little conflicted with Raubahn leaving Nanamo's side, but since his presence only distanced Nanamo from the Syndicate, it would probably be the best.

Ivalice

I admit I don't know a thing about Tactics so any reference to that game probably just flew straight over my head. I did play XII, and I feel glad to see Mateus and Hashmal, even if it took me 30min to beat each of them.

What I don't understand:

What happened to Rabanastre? Cid's account said that the Empire made that city a death trap. What happened there that they saw it fit to destroy an occupied territory?

About Mateus and Hashmal, what ARE they in FFXIV world? Primals, or gods-infused mortals?

Who's that guy we saw transformed into the final boss?

What's the big deal with auracite? We already know of auracite's existence from Moenbryda, and now it's implied that the stone is some kind of a legend? And why did Cid mentioned Shiva and Thordan again having possible connection to the auracite??

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Apparently you can breathe and communicate via linkpearl underwater.

Less surprising than the fact you can swim and talk underwater, never mind we don't have gills and the water will inevitably get inside our lungs. xD

My whole thoughts on MSQ and raid:

MSQ

I was a bit surprised to see us going on an adventure with Arenvald and Alphinaud right at the beginning but I did like it in the end. (Also I laughed at the grin my character gave him) Its kinda funny that we have people like Arenvald that are thinking about the big problems of Ala Mhigo while the true leader is barely doing anything about that.

The dungeon was nice and finally one dungeon in SB where they do not talk about the other adventurers being suddenly with us..also loved the little comments about Alphinauds face when they saw their first monsters. Poor boy being picked on all the time. (Also that hair in that picture..)

I am not really sure how I feel about Fordola. It was nice that she saw some of our past and that maybe the echo might change her but I did not really like her memory. So her parents decided to side with the Garleans and somehow walk through the district where the poor people live. Fordola was seemingly not that young but still had not even a single clue about whats going on. (Also the german voice for her father was just horrible for me, he sounded like an old man x))

It was kinda funny that its again Raubahn who managed to make the crowd go with his words, while Lyse stood around and did nothing. I mean it seems that she did not even have arguments for the enraged crowd which just feels bad. I know that Raubahn has more experience but if they plan to make her the head of the new system they should show us more about her potential.

After that I absolutely loved the bit about Nanamo. I like her character and I like that she grew mature enough to try it without Raubahn and that she wanted to help the people. Nice little appearance of Godbert and Lolorito. Like the first one with the treasure the WoL saves the "day" with their ideas. Also this again benefits the Ala Mhigan people so again Lyse got another good deal without doing much herself. (One top of that its us who then speaks with the old man and teach that NPC how to fight and Alphinaud who makes all the plans for the state.)

I also liked the talk with Raubahn and I choose the line where Yuyuhase and Laurentius should be punished with death. We gave one more than one chance to change for the better and the Lalafell did grin when he saw the slaughter. Leaving them alive would just be naive imo. I am kinda interested how their trial will go and if our answer will really change anything at all. Also kinda interesting that we had the option to give our opinion here but never for Fordola. (And its funny how its totally fine for Raubahn that those two could be punished to death but not for her)

Then we have the meeting and I was surprised to finally see other scions even if they still barely played any part at all. I was not surprised that the meeting ended with the summoning of Lakshimi and I really hope that this taught Lyse an important lesson. Its great that you want to have a place for everyone but its simply too naive to believe that this is truly possible for all, especially if they are tempered. Without the WoL and Arenvald they all would have been tempered.

About that battle: I like the mechanics of the fight even after I had to do it a second time thanks to Raubahn killing me. Still I wish they would have done it that way, that you will only have the cutscene with Fordola if one ball truly gets to one of the NPCs. They were saying how its impossible to hold that and yet I would have been able to at least still manage that wave. Fordolas entrace was cool and the fight afterwards also. I am a bit vary about the echo becoming more and more of a plot power. It was already a bit much for me, that our character suddenly is able to produce a shield without any such hints in the story before that. Now suddenly Arenvald and Fordola (both no real expert on the echo) are able to hold Lakshimi with some kind of lines and Fordola also manages to block out attacks with her echo. It feels like coming out of nowhere just for plot reasons. (Why cant our character do that in fights?) Also somehow other people can now fight primals that are bend on tempering with barely any risk. (Didnt ramuh just temper the slyphs by being there?)

Still nice to see that the people did not just forgive Fordola right here and there. It might be the best for humanity if we can just forgive anything but its truly not realistic to have that happen, especially when you talk about torture and murder over quite some time. I really hope that her whole redemption will still take more time but nice to see a bit of a change that still has some kind of explanation behind that.

The bit with Nanamo and Raubahn after that really put some tears in my eyes and I had to grin a bit about Alphinauds realization that he did not know about this change before us.

So before I get to the after credit scenes here my short thoughts about all: Well this patch really just shows how Eorzeas really needs us. They do have people like Arenvald who at least think about the bigger problems too but still they need our help to get there. Nanamo needed us for her ideas but at least she still had some kind of plan herself and without us being at the meeting all of them would have been tempered. I am not sure how I feel about this because we will not always be there to help, yet at the same time I like how we alone also influence so much with our own ideas.

I dont hate Lyse but after this patch I believe even more that the better candidates for the leading position (Ala Mhigos Aymeric) would be Raubahn for his experience or Arenvald. The latter has really shone in this patch by thinking about other problems that could plague the city state later but still has enough compassion to try to forgive Fordola. Lyse is really fixed on the belief that Ala Mhigo has a place for everyone but even though the belief is something good and admirable, I am just not sure if this is good for leading a whole city state. As a leader you cant simply please anyone every time. Also if she somehow makes Fordola part of Ala Mhigo again and let her live free, then shouldnt that mean that nobody would ever have to go to prison again? She did horrible things under the Garlean rule and even killed her comrades. So if she gets redemption and can leave the prison, then no crime should ever be punished anymore since most are way lesser acts than that. (IMO) I just think that there should be a line that should not be crossed and for me Fordola did that and no sad past can change her decisions. I am fine if she only gets a couple of years in prison thanks to her help but leaving without any punishment would also sent a wrong image out. ("Why I am punished for stealing something when the one that tortured and killed people is running free?")

I have the bad feeling that Lyse will be the Ayermic of Ala Mhigo at the end of the expansion but imo I still cant see her in that position. She still has a lot to learn and this is a city state that is finally free from the Garlean reign so they should be lead by someone with enough experience. I am not saying that she never could be leader but I am just not sure if it makes much sense to make her one right now. Maybe make Raubahn the lead and Lyse the assistance to him. This way she will still have some say in a way and might even learn a bit.

So about the after credits:
Any good feeling that I had for the ending of the MSQ really went away when I saw the scene in Kugane. I came to terms with seeing a redemption for someone like Fordola if its done good and over time but I cant just accept a redemption for Yotsuyu..Especially if they really go down the route of her losing her memories. Not only does this completely change her character which means that anything that made her a great villain is gone but its also the easiest route to make someone redeemable even if they normally should not. We are talking about a person that enjoyed the torture and killing of innocent people and somehow it seems that she still should be allowed to get her redemption..also I am feeling a bit bad for Gosetsu that had to sell his swords only to be really hungry and have his money being eaten away by her. I really hope that she is only playing that part and that she will stay her own self way till the end because imo its way more realistic to have someone like that not suddenly change and amnesia just feels like a cheap coup out for me. Especially since we have that one side quest with the potion where the leading scientist has amnesia too but was still punished for his wrong doings.

The raid

I did not play any other FF than 14 and 13, so I have no idea how the game this is based on, plays but I still liked the beginning of it.

In that short time we are told that the WoL is free of too much judgment for race or stuff like that and thus was mentioned by Cid to the people. We get to know some good Garleans even if Ramza is really showing some colors of the bad ones by calling us some "nice" things. Its interesting to hear that the first ruler of Garlemald still allowed any kind of art even if it had criticism in it and that he even financed this. It is not surprising to me that they showed us that Varis is truly a dictator. Censuring everything that is not fine in his eyes and even going so far as to kill people that are thinking different on this. We do get a glimpse that there are intellectuals that are seeing the government in a negative light but that they stopped financing the group when they feared for their own life. This is a big hint that even some of the higher ups are not fine with the government itself and that fear is a major point in ruling the people.

I know that this might annoy some but still we went there alone and did not know that we would going into a big fight and the airship immediately left with only us on board and thus for me this is another sign that we might even do the 24 man all alone. This shows even more at the end where we would have easily been able to kill the enemies even with an hostage if we were 24 people at that scene. So the WoL is really a beast on their own. (Still WoL suffered from the cutscene weakness and somehow is then not able to swiftly take care of three enemies..)

I also liked how they just told us that the place was a really nice one to live and that it was wealthy only for the Garleans to destroy it all. Even Ramza was surprised by the amount of destruction that they caused.

I like the raid. I dont remember much of the music because I was really concentrated on the fights themselves and the bosses did nothing emotionally to me since I did not know them from other games. I loved the part with the water but I did not like the cutscene towards the end. I have no idea who that man was, he was suddenly there and then after his death he called out to Ramza. So as someone that does not know this, this raid still felt heavily fanservice and I really hope that there are more ingame explanations in the next ones since the bosses kinda felt a bit out of place.

Yet in the end I did enjoy it but I hope they built more ingame lore for that. Especially since I am not sure to whom they want to prove their family line too? They had to flee Garlemald and I am quite sure that Varis would not just let them back if they had proof that Ivalice once existed and that they had ties with it. (Also why I am having a bad feeling that the girl will do something stupid and get caught in the process? Her having to stay behind and her reaction really made me skeptic about her future actions.

a few things i want to touch on that i took away from the this round

Kugane..

Tsuyu to me at first gave me the amnesia vibe like it seems to have given everyone else... but on second thought she almost seemed like shes almost falling for Gotsetsu... afterall she did try to kill him, hein, us, and tormented the people of doma and here he is taking care of her without cruelty or malice, the first real acts of kindness shes ever been shown...

as for ivalice...

was that aragath guy supposed to be Argus? the spoiled noble who killed Delita's sister? Auracite sucks up a persons aether and soul and changes them before spitting them back into the body... making monsters out of men (just like the zodiac stones did in tactics)... hence cids remarks about how its not like thordain and shiva but a whole different type of godly infusion...

Hildy Story...

Nashu has a stalker for the past 5 years? that guy must have some serious disposable income and alot of free time... kinda sad that it was just one quest and wasnt very long... i just hope we dont have to wait forever for the next parts... aslo hoping we get a trial or something from this round which i found severely lacking in hildys HW story ( we got 2 gilgamesh and the Ultros/Typhon trials from ARR and i was expecting to see a Black Waltz trial after the vivi thing in HW *disappointed*)...