On toxicity in forums

[Savagelf]

I argee that the general forum is toxicity

[Lalafallen]

While I'm not really active in the forum in general and thus not getting in a lot of arguments, I still see where you come from. I wouldn't call certain things "toxicity" per se, but rather a lack of knowing how to express one's opinion in a constructive manner - even though you don't agree with a person. After all it's so much easier to address an issue just with "I hate this or that idea, that is so stupid!" than finding and expression reasons for why someone doesn't agree with the other person.

I don't really want to blame people who behave like that to be honest, sometimes we just have a bad day and/or just get annoyed by the "weird" idea someone has and just want to express that. I often caugh myself doing that too, but before I even start writing I ask myself: "Can't I spend this minute more productive than writing an angry sentence how stupid someone and their idea is?" Yeah, I know, it's only a minute, but which is better: Making some tea/grabbing your favorite food/watching a cat video on youtube or attacking someone online, even though they and their ideas won't really matter in your life?

I know it's not always rainbows, unicorns and butterflies and it never will be, but most of the time there are definitely better and nicer ways for both sides to communicate over a problem. If you really want to express your opinion in a way that might be toxic, go ahead - but don't be surprised that the other side gets really defensive and thus making your day at least a little worse.

[Vahlnir]

You're going to find this everywhere you go on the internet. All things considered though, this is one of the more "friendly" forums I've been on. Sure, there's toxicity, but it could be so much worse.

[Gravton]

In my experience that's just video game forums in general. People complain because they love the game, hoping for changes to this or that so they don't feel like they should quit.

[TruebladeNuke]

I tend to prefer the middle ground, honestly. Some posters do need 'thicker skin' and other posters need to take a step back and tone down their aggression from time to time.

It took me a few years when I first started visiting forums back when I was still in school, but the middle road is the one I always try to walk now as well. (Which may explain why I don't post on this forum often) I have to say, it's been paying off too I believe.

On the toxicity itself... it's present here on this forum like every other forum I've been to, but I wouldn't consider this forum the most toxic community forum I've seen. If TV Tropes is anything to go by, it IS however one of the most "Divided in opinion" communities out there, warrenting it's own page under the trope "Broken Base". (Please note though that there's a major difference between the fanbase simply being divided in opinion VS actually being toxic)

And as others have already stated, sometimes when people come on here to complain, it's because they actually DO care about the game and want it to improve. (Another thing that took me awhile to get used to when visiting forums) It can be annoying though at times to separate the players who are complaining because they actually care about the game VS the ones who are complaining simply because they can and want to get reactions out of others.

[MoroMurasaki]

Miste's thoughtful (but very long) post.

I think the bottom line of our disagreement is that we have different functional definitions of the words hurt and violence. I still stand by my meanings for them personally but I understand coming from your views on them why the 'sticks and stones' adage seems outdated and detrimental. Due to some irl experiences with both sides of this coin I understand that my view may be the less common one but that doesn't sway my beliefs in the slightest.

I also don't think that either of us is going to convince the other to switch to our views on hurt/violence so the way I see it we're basically at an impasse.

Ultimately bad people are bad but we are all responsible for ourselves and our actions, be it online or irl. I don't think that one person taking offense from the harsh words of another person is exclusively on either party there - the poster of said words chose to post them and the reader chose to allow them to effect their mental state. If you are incapable of managing yourself in either of these ways (again excluding extreme bullying/harrassment) then perhaps you need to wait on this type of activity until you can.

[LunaFaye]

the forums are nothing in comparison to the actual in game toxicity on some servers, and I am not talking during high end raid content with statics etc., simple things from somebody asking a question in zone/region chat, entry level dungeons aka satasha and tam tara (others as well, but not going to name them all), all the way up to just walking through a city with the wrong glamour that day.

We experiencing that for a while, in fact in the last years it always occurred during summer break, teens are allowed to play during that time it seems as well as WoW having mostly no content patches during that time, leaving the players we normally don't encounter bored and with FFXIV's promotions all the time, as well as huge expansion packs right during that time, makes this game appealing to a lot of different genres.

And while it's very frustrating and annoying, it mostly ends right at the start of September, that's when most of us veterans even return after having taken a break during the non enjoyable summer times. But every year as mentioned above it gets worse, don't know why and I don't care much about the reason even, plenty of these players stick with the game and find lots of followers when it comes to promoting "their" style of game.

It's sad to see but that's how the gaming world works. You either have to ignore/tolerate it, find a other game you can enjoy till the crowd catches up on that one, or be more toxic and rude than your counter part. Not that this is going to help the overall behavior, but it might make you feel less frustrated if you "won" that keyboard battle. I know for some of my friends that's the only way to react, without it they would have quit already years ago.

It was just a matter of time that it effected the forums as well, however it isn't new, I've mentioned it so many times in the past, saying that some people just argue for the sake of arguing, and if they don't like the answer they are given, they are very quick to report your post.

Others just respond in the new trendy way, if you're not familiar with it, let me show you some word/sentence examples as in "git gud, scrub". Back in the day we had the words l33t or 1337 and other terms, they weren't funny in the 90's but somehow now they are picked back up, and younger generation thinks they are funny or "powerful", when in reality it's nothing but annoyance and a reason we older gamer's retired these words and behavior already back in the day.

Another example are some streamers, and I am not saying all of them, started off as good information given to beginners or even veterans and being a very valuable addition to the community itself. But hey money and sex pays/sells in every industry correct, yep this one too, now these people turned into let's bash others because my subscribers/patrons are the ones I talked about above, and it will swap more and more into the game, thinking that this is a good way to communicate. Deep down they know it's wrong, in fact I talked to some of them just recently, and they don't want to be like that but that's their job, they get paid for streaming or sponsored content reviews. Sometimes you have to make the decision what's more important in life.

Never ending circle, and yes I am rambling again and I might even get banned for it again, because somebody couldn't accept the truth. Needless to say, if nobody says something, this bs is going to go on and will eventually get worse. Some F2P games have less toxicity in comparison, and these games actually have content that's worth competing about lol.

In general, maybe people should keep in mind that while it's the internet, you can have different opinions and even if you're not agree with each other, there should be some kind of basic respect. You won't behave like this in IRL, because the outcome would be very differently, but somehow the internet makes common sense disappear, along with manners and general social interactions.

Edit: Before somebody starts the argument again about looking at other games and compare them, I am not interested because I don't play other game at the moment, I am playing this game and therefore I will look at this forum or in game behavior, also the excuse is getting very old on top of that....

[Miste]

(again excluding extreme bullying/harrassment)

Well like I said before my posts encompass everything including the extreme.

I am talking about all situations. A simple forum post is a pretty minor thing and it almost isn't even relevant to what I was posting (because forums are heavily moderated so no one can really say anything really really bad without consequences; I've never seen anyone in these forums say anything on the level of verbal abuse I am talking about in my posts)

Yes, some people are oversensitive to a degree that is very confusing and there is a level of over sensitivity where there isn't much that can be said about it (like for example...blacklisting someone just because they disagreed with something you said cough), but there is more to my post than just forum posts and forum posts isn't the main issue with the saying being a lie. Which I clarified in my first response that I wasn't talking about the situation of the person I responded to. I was basically calling out the saying in a general sense and that society really shouldn't keep using a saying that is a lie; so the main issue wasn't really the forums per say.

My posts are also talking about extreme bullying and harassment. Things that have happened that have caused emotional and mental damage and sometimes even ending in very sad tragedies whether it was online bullying or in real life. To me that is violence and I've witnessed some of that first hand in my life. Physical abuse damages the body and verbal abuse damages the mind. Mind and body make up us as a whole so damaging one or the other seems to be the same thing to me.

But, that is all I am going to say on the matter. I didn't expect it to turn into much of a debate after my single post and it isn't fully relevant to the topic since that level of verbal abuse doesn't exist on these forums as far as I have seen. I just wanted to point out the truth that that saying is a lie and society should stop using it and find something better.

[Ilyrian]

Off-Topic: but I'm learning so much from watching your healing YouTube Miste /fanboyout

[Miste]

Off-Topic: but I'm learning so much from watching your healing YouTube Miste /fanboyout

Oh! Thank you very much ^^

I am glad you like them. I am not like the best healer out there at all, but if it helps anyone I am glad ^^