On toxicity in forums

[Raqrie_Tohka]

While I assume no one would deliberately be aggressive on forums for no reasons at all, I see plenty of of forms of aggression going on in forums every time I come on here.

These incidents rarely benefit the topic under discussion and tend to leave people hurt.

To most, they are but a minor annoyance, but for some, it can ruin their day, especially if they are just newcomers and were unwittingly dragged into a toxic whirlpool of word-puzzles, just from posting an offhand comment.

Besides generally encouraging everyone to please give a bit of leeway to others, and be a bit less quick to jump into the fray next time they get twitchy, I'm hoping for more people to post their own words of encouragement and positivity here. Floor's all yours.

Anyone has a right to play our game, and their IQ, EQ, or experience should not constitute a reason for discrimination against them. Some people may be a bit eccentric, less social, maybe even weird, but they still have a right to participate in our game and its discussions. The perception of our game and the forums may vary for different people as well; some may view the forums as a "tavern", where they lay back after work, some may view it as a "convention", where everyone brings something to show to each other, or even some as a "conference", for engaging in debate over prominent matters. And theoretically, while misunderstandings will expectedly happen between such varied perceptions of the social setting, it should not, by itself, be a valid excuse for intolerance.

Nor should it be solely blamed for the tendency of comments devolving into triggers for aggression, if the comment was not either straight-up flattery, or shy and opinion-less commenting. In the actual game, the mentor system can be intimidating, or if less severe, awkwardly unapproachable, for some. FCs can devolve into closed circles of power and benefit. Raids can become the ultimate "just for business" efficiency check and scheduled chore. Even the MSQ can be seen as just an experience ladder and content-lock to be progressed through as fast as possible. These do not even reach the real problems, such as subscription fees, schedules, and other predominants.

These are not simple problems with single causes and easy solutions, if distinct solutions at all. Running from them, lashing out at others from being tired of them, or just being tangled up in it all, perhaps is not how to reach a solution, but we are all involved in it, our own ways, and working together to break past the mire. We should always save a space in our hearts to have some pity, some understanding, some courtesy of space, for fellow people in the same eternal plight, and living on the same world, and that maybe one day when you are old, tired, they may show the same mercy to you.

"Rhetorical", you say, "complete waste of words telling me nothing I ever knew" "I can't believe I even wasted effort into reading this" "horribly written, unhelpful and excessive" ... these are perhaps opinions you hold not just for written text in forums, but in your everyday life, too. "I hate that person, I hate their face, I hate their tone, I hate their presence, get out, or, be berated by me (and rightly so) for being such a horrible, worthless, annoying person". "Great, and due to political correctness, I can't even berate. Oh wait, since it's political correctness, all the talk about inclusion, non-discrimination is only ritualistic too. I should make use of this shameful display of incompetence to further my own standings, for my own gains."

Well I am sure that is all a bit harsh, but can one ever be sure all this logic didn't unconsciously streamline in us within 0.5 seconds of being directly confronted by any direct comment, at all? In fact we're quite disappointed it even took so long as 0.5 seconds, we'd rather it kicked in in 0.2 seconds, it's quite a handy survival mechanism and totally appropriate reaction for real society of course. Insistence that our forums have no place for such things is purely idealistic, and again, "political correctness". It's not "disallowed", nor even "discouraged"; so of course I should confront (and win) if I have a chance, and have superiority.

Ahem, wait, what was our topic again?

So you see how close we are to debates becoming duels. Too close. Doesn't matter if you start right, end right, it can be interpreted wrongly, and acted upon. Such fear, tyranny, is unbecoming of our forums, (and society as a whole.) It warps images of mentors, disfigures opinions on forums, discourages newcomers, aggravates pain, and is toxic. We cannot trust our conversation partner to not instantly flip the table and go aggressive. We cannot take solace that one wrong word will instantly revoke us of our tavern membership and get kick out of the country. One person's relevance can disfranchise someone else's. Not just their opinion, but as a whole, as a person. This is tyranny, through and through.

I'm sorry you had to read all this tiring, grim rant. But I just cannot come up with something positive as of now. I just came back from a week of tiring work, make one post, and get berated for it. I see no less than 2 more people get bullied out-of-thread over multiple pages in my first pass. And I see less of anything truly positive, inspiring, interesting, new from before I left forums as it was. I'm trying to consolidate notes on something serious I'd like to present onto forums, too, but honestly, in an environment such as this, why should I even bother? It is just too easy to keep ranting on grim things, or continue holding an elitist air for "all to be fine", than come up with anything concrete, but positive and inspiring. But not all is fine, and pretending it is is not something I can do, or pretend is fine for others who do have already contributed their part of quality material onto forums, or for others who just happened to wander by but have to make up with all the bullsht that happens in forums anyways. This means pretty much everyone who ever was aggressive, even slightly, including me. Who ever got themselves into toxicity, regardless of which side. Yes, I am just that bitter right now I'm denouncing the baby with the bathwater. I just want to see the toxicity gone that hard.

[Seig345]

I agree with the sentiment behind your post, but people in general are terrible to each other on the internet.

The majority of people who are happy with the game, or couldn't be bothered to complain and simply quit, will likely never even know these forums exist. That essentially leaves you with a minority who happen to both play this game as well as enjoy perusing forums.

"I love this game!" tends to be a thin topic to actually create a thread about, so that leaves you with a slant towards complaints/concerns/negativity, opinions clash, Hildy's your uncle, and here we are with the aggressive forum posters we have today.

[Penthea]

I agree with the sentiment behind your post, but people in general are terrible to each other on the internet.

If you want to know what someone is really like, see how they act when they can hide behind an avatar.

[Colino]

Yeah so what, what's your problem dude? Looking for a fight? huh? *bangs chest*

[KalinOrthos]

Yeah so what, what's your problem dude? Looking for a fight? huh? *bangs chest*

I think this calls for fisticuffs! Have at you, sir!

[Sylvina]

I think this calls for fisticuffs! Have at you, sir!

Let's settle this MANO EL MANO!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urryAQPd82Y

[KalinOrthos]

Let's settle this MANO EL MANO!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urryAQPd82Y

After my own heart. <3

[Colino]

I think this calls for fisticuffs! Have at you, sir!

Against horns like that? Hells no! I say we duel instead, and I shall initiate this by removing my glove and smacking you with it! ... That is if you bring your face down to my slapping range please.

[KalinOrthos]

Against horns like that? Hells no! I say we duel instead, and I shall initiate this by removing my glove and smacking you with it! ... That is if you bring your face down to my slapping range please.

Pardon, what's that? I can't hear you from up here, you'll have to speak up. My shins aren't my face.

[Lalafallen]

While I'm not really active in the forum in general and thus not getting in a lot of arguments, I still see where you come from. I wouldn't call certain things "toxicity" per se, but rather a lack of knowing how to express one's opinion in a constructive manner - even though you don't agree with a person. After all it's so much easier to address an issue just with "I hate this or that idea, that is so stupid!" than finding and expression reasons for why someone doesn't agree with the other person.

I don't really want to blame people who behave like that to be honest, sometimes we just have a bad day and/or just get annoyed by the "weird" idea someone has and just want to express that. I often caugh myself doing that too, but before I even start writing I ask myself: "Can't I spend this minute more productive than writing an angry sentence how stupid someone and their idea is?" Yeah, I know, it's only a minute, but which is better: Making some tea/grabbing your favorite food/watching a cat video on youtube or attacking someone online, even though they and their ideas won't really matter in your life?

I know it's not always rainbows, unicorns and butterflies and it never will be, but most of the time there are definitely better and nicer ways for both sides to communicate over a problem. If you really want to express your opinion in a way that might be toxic, go ahead - but don't be surprised that the other side gets really defensive and thus making your day at least a little worse.