Thread: SMN 4.1 patch notes

Just to be sure Cherub, you're accounting for the fact that Ruin 3 is instant cast in DWT and pets can proc Ruin 2 into Ruin 4?

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Just to be sure Cherub, you're accounting for the fact that Ruin 3 is instant cast in DWT and pets can proc Ruin 2 into Ruin 4?

Yes, both are accounted into it. The problem with DWT and instant casts is, that you usually can't use many CDs within DWT anyway since Aetherflow is locked. It definitely eases Tri-D and SF usage tho.
The problem with the Ruin IV proc is that it is a proc and outside of controll. Some of your CD's need to be used exactly at one certain point, having no Ruin IV proc ready for that or even delaying your proc so long until you are at that point might most certainly end up in a DPS loss.
Sometimes, like for fester, you have a more lax window but even then, you'll need multiple Ruin IV procs as to not end up losing DPS.
So not only do you have to plan your CDs to fit the fight on the spot anymore but also how you will have to effectively accompany them with the right Ruin as to maximise DPS.

Originally Posted by KarstenS

Never look at the top numbers. That are all try hard pushes where the entire group is focussing to push one member.

These give a better point of view.

Yea, hate to break it to you. No they Don't. Looking at max shows us the highest a class can perform overall. Your complete argument is invalid as the top Summoner parse is exactly that. 98% balance uptime.This Summoner is a tryhard pushing numbers, and still 300 dps lower then a large number of Monks and Blms. Then take in consideration that the Summoner's group is mostly all high tier players with orange dps and the SMN still haven't topped 6k dps. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/MjYr3...pe=damage-done

100th percentile Smn parse with 98% balance uptime. Group had 36k dps overall. Then the top Blm Parse.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/48WPj...pe=damage-done
Blm has the same team comp mostly, except he's the only player with a notable parse. He even had a death in his run, lowering dps and making the fight longer. More then likely, if his group had 36k dps overall (only 8k dps higher as a group) his dps would have been even higher. Looking at his parse, it's night and day. Smn's group kills boss one minute 26 seconds faster.

So a Smn with a full orange group of orange dps (except that one guy...) that kills a boss 1:26 seconds faster, loses to a Blm's dps and his group that doesn't have a single orange parse (other then the blm.) In other words, The Blm had to sustain his larger dps for longer, and even with more then a minute, he kept his dps 350+ higher then the Smn, and with about half the balance uptime.

Sooo. Basically you are saying that even thou the Summoner had a much better group, had higher balance uptime, a faster kill time, no deaths in their parse, and lost to blm, that it doesn't mean anything. And you're just wrong.

Looking at generalized performance of players means nothing until you actually compare parse for parse. Until the day where a Summoner beats 6.3k dps, the whole, play Summoner to perfection it's top dps shtick just doesn't float.

Originally Posted by Ariomi

hi, i am an idiot that can't read basic math hehe.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/MjYr3...bility=1000829

uh, remind me how 35% of 5% AOE balance is better than 46% of 15% single target balance again?

Originally Posted by Ariomi

SMN vs BLM

One is a speed run parse, the other is a dedicated padding parse.

The BLM got every dmg buff, including single Balance, Contagion from Garuda, Dragon Sight,.....while the SMN only got AoE raid buff.

Not a good comparison if you asked me.

One that note thou, SMN dps IS LOWER than BLM on paper. The only time SMN would pull ahead is when there is a lot of movement involved. So on a cherry-picked parse of utmost possible padding/catering, there is no surprised that SMN is lower than BLM. The percentile graph is pretty inaccurate too given there are much more BLM's parses than SMN's parses. The top 100 BLM might be the 99% percentile while the top 10 SMN is 99%.....

In general, I would say SMN and BLM are pretty close. SMN might be better for speed-run thou.

Originally Posted by Miridori

One is a speed run parse, the other is a dedicated padding parse.

The BLM got every dmg buff, including single Balance, Contagion from Garuda, Dragon Sight,.....while the SMN only got AoE raid buff.

Not a good comparison if you asked me.

In general, I would say SMN and BLM are pretty close. SMN might be better for speed-run thou.

thx Miri you covered almost everything which is rushing through my mind everytime if anyone started to compare "raw" numbers between top parses on different cls. its just not about the numbers... there are way more facts to consider and most of the comparisons you read here just skip those facts. : /

Originally Posted by Miridori

One is a speed run parse, the other is a dedicated padding parse.

Not a good comparison if you asked me.

The Smn got trick Attack from the Ninja, 98% balance uptime.
The Blm got Contagion and 45% Balance uptime.

Otherwise the two parses are mostly identical.

They are a good comparison when you consider the fact, The Blm had his Summoner die in his parse, had his fight a minute longer, and a team that had significant lower dps. The only real difference, is dragon sight, which is a 5% dps increase to the blm that the Summoner didn't have access to. However, this is rather small, when you consider the difference in balance uptime, and the duration of the two fights. The Summoner had the fight end sooner, which boosts their dps numbers. While the Blm had to sustain his damage for longer.

For example. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/vCGkn...pe=damage-done

Here's a 6k dps parse back in heavensward. Despite my dps normally being around 2400 usually.

So considering everything? Yes, it's a good comparison. The Summoner had the bigger advantages. No deaths, Quicker Kill, Better team, More balance uptime.

Originally Posted by Ariomi

So considering everything? Yes, it's a good comparison. The Summoner had the bigger advantages. No deaths, Quicker Kill, Better team, More balance uptime.

You say the difference between 2 top players, a SMN and a BLM, was 350 dps eh? I wonder if Devotion (raidwide 2% buff with a 12.5% uptime) and Radiant Shield (2% phys damage buff that lasts potentially 24 seconds on a 60 sec CD) bridges that gap.

Raidwide DPS for SMN's group was 36.6k dps and there were 6 physical damage dealers, I'd be willing to bet that when you take into account the rDPS the SMN brings to the table it beats out the BLM in every/most scenario(s).

Also, now that you've compared the top SMN parse to the top BLM parse, lets look at the vast majority of average-great players: When you look at the top dps across all savage fights, SMN is #2 only behind SAM in personal dps from the 50%-99% range of players. This doesn't take into account Devotion, Radiant Shield, or Contagion.