SMN 4.1 patch notes

**Ariomi** · 10-10-2017 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by dinnertime

Summoner can potentially do higher damage than a Black Mage or Monk. The problem is that you have to play it almost perfectly to achieve that which is something the developers should work on.

Besides, majority of Summoner's damage comes from various abilities, not just from Ruin III.

Hate to break it to you, This whole "Smn has higher damage potential Shtick" is completely untrue. Nothing more then a rumor spread by high tier Smn players that want to pretend that SE didn't ruin the class. Smn does not have the same dps potential as Black Mage or Monk unless the fight scrutinizes Monk or Blm.

Alte Roite for example. The top Monks and Black Mages are currently at 6.2-6.3k dps. Summoners are at 5.9k 300 to 400 dps lower. (And the current highest Smn parse has a balance uptime of 98% while the top Blm parse I am looking at does not. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/MjYr3...=71&type=auras

Black Mage beats Summoner on every fight except Exdeath (probably due to all the movement), but then beats Summoner on Neo.

With the Nerfs to Ruin 3's damage, we will see how much that will impact Summoner's dps.

**Ash_** · 10-08-2017 01:14 PM

The only things missing is fixing the flow to aetherflow and making bahamut stick to do a dam spot without moving. I'm going to have find somewhere on my crossbar for tri-bind depending on how useful it is.

**Cherub** · 10-08-2017 08:20 PM

In theory, the Ruin changes made SMN even harder to play. Ruin III is now the new Ruin (FINALLY we get rid of Ruin), while it did get lower potency it is now our filler spell and still 30 potency higher than normal ruin. This change itself will have you use Ruin III(Or Ruin if you will) over Ruin II. This becomes more of an apparent problem when you have CD's to use. If you use Ruin II, you effectively lose out on potency unless you weave CD's and they make up for those 30 potency lost.

Now you not only have to manage your tight CD management with the crazy 60 second window in which you have to Rouse, Bahamut and DWT for max DPS, but you also lose out on DPS if you use Ruin II over Ruin III :^)
Summoning Bahamut should have made Ruin III instant too.
Devotions 2% is a meme. CD should have been 60 seconds or 120secs with 5%. At least it's a party buff now \o/
SMN is without a doubt the hardest job to play BUT I am happy we finally got rid of fucking Ruin 1 after 2 expansions.

**Karshan** · 10-08-2017 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Cherub

In theory, the Ruin changes made SMN even harder to play. Ruin III is now the new Ruin (FINALLY we get rid of Ruin), while it did get lower potency it is now our filler spell and still 30 potency higher than normal ruin. This change itself will have you use Ruin III(Or Ruin if you will) over Ruin II. This becomes more of an apparent problem when you have CD's to use. If you use Ruin II, you effectively lose out on potency unless you weave CD's and they make up for those 30 potency lost.

I don't get it. It was already the case. You spammed ruin 3 (150) unless you had to weave ruin II. Go watch fflogs reports to see how much ruin 3 was used over ruin I. Ruin 3 has been our filler spell since HS, only going back to ruin when the uptime was long and didn't have time to regen.

on the contrary you lose now less when you have to use ruin II instead of ruin 3 to weave in some oGCD. In transe you don't have to revert to ruin II, you can weave with ruin 3. And mana management will be less of an issue.
Plus now you can weave with ruin 4 when available, so can use it asap.

I did a little study of the impact here : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/346721-Live-Letter-4.1-SMN-Changes?p=4426504&viewfull=1#post4426504

**Cherub** · 10-10-2017 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Karshan

Snip

That's not true, you weren't able to sustain Ruin III spam over a 10 minute fight no matter how you turn it. You could spam until low MP and inside trance but that's it. MP restoration is limited. Your to go spell was still Ruin II, which in Top parses sees about three times as much use as Ruin III. It's very simple, really. Now you have the ability to sustain Ruin III spam over the whole course of a 10 minute fight. No drawbacks attached beside a cast time.

**Karshan** · 10-10-2017 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Cherub

That's not true, you weren't able to sustain Ruin III spam over a 10 minute fight no matter how you turn it. You could spam until low MP and inside trance but that's it. MP restoration is limited. Your to go spell was still Ruin II, which in Top parses sees about three times as much use as Ruin III. It's very simple, really. Now you have the ability to sustain Ruin III spam over the whole course of a 10 minute fight. No drawbacks attached beside a cast time.

Maybe I expressed myself wrong.

Ruin II was the most used BECAUSE NEEDED to weave or move. The go to when nothing needed was Ruin 3 or Ruin 1 if low MP. Just see a rota on a dummy, sure you Ruin II a lot to weave, but when not needed you just never do so.
Now it will be the same : Ruin II (or 4) when needed, Ruin 3 spam otherwise.
So it doesn't change much really, except since new Ruin 3 is 130 we lose a bit in average (instead of a mix of 150 and 100), but we lose less to go Ruin II (we lose 30, we lost 50 before).

As I said, I did the maths on an example from Eirene Snow and from an average SMN : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4426504

**Dualgunner** · 10-08-2017 08:29 PM

Just to be sure Cherub, you're accounting for the fact that Ruin 3 is instant cast in DWT and pets can proc Ruin 2 into Ruin 4?

**Cherub** · 10-08-2017 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Just to be sure Cherub, you're accounting for the fact that Ruin 3 is instant cast in DWT and pets can proc Ruin 2 into Ruin 4?

Yes, both are accounted into it. The problem with DWT and instant casts is, that you usually can't use many CDs within DWT anyway since Aetherflow is locked. It definitely eases Tri-D and SF usage tho.
The problem with the Ruin IV proc is that it is a proc and outside of controll. Some of your CD's need to be used exactly at one certain point, having no Ruin IV proc ready for that or even delaying your proc so long until you are at that point might most certainly end up in a DPS loss.
Sometimes, like for fester, you have a more lax window but even then, you'll need multiple Ruin IV procs as to not end up losing DPS.
So not only do you have to plan your CDs to fit the fight on the spot anymore but also how you will have to effectively accompany them with the right Ruin as to maximise DPS.

**KarstenS** · 10-11-2017 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Cherub

The problem with the Ruin IV proc is that it is a proc and outside of controll. Some of your CD's need to be used exactly at one certain point, having no Ruin IV proc ready for that or even delaying your proc so long until you are at that point might most certainly end up in a DPS loss.

Before this patch Ruin 4 was a cast. So you had to use Ruin 2 for every oGCD except you had swiftcast for it. From my point of view it is a buff, which makes it way better to use Ruin 4 proccs now.

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

except make you more mobile than a RDM for 16 seconds every minute.

SMN has been more mobile all the time. SMN is the bard of the casters.

Originally Posted by Ariomi

Alte Roite for example. The top Monks and Black Mages are currently at 6.2-6.3k dps.

Never look at the top numbers. That are all try hard pushes where the entire group is focussing to push one member.

Getting back to your example, look at the statistics: https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=42

These give a better point of view.

**Waliel** · 10-11-2017 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Ariomi

Hate to break it to you, This whole "Smn has higher damage potential Shtick" is completely untrue. Nothing more then a rumor spread by high tier Smn players that want to pretend that SE didn't ruin the class. Smn does not have the same dps potential as Black Mage or Monk unless the fight scrutinizes Monk or Blm.

With the Nerfs to Ruin 3's damage, we will see how much that will impact Summoner's dps.

Yeah, about that:

Originally Posted by Waliel

Let's see...

Alte Roite: SMN above BLM on every percentile.
Catastrophe: BLM above SMN on every percentile.
Halicarnassus: SMN above BLM on every percentile except 99% and up, and above SAM on 95% and up.
Exdeath: SMN above BLM on every percentile, and above SAM on 80% and up.
Neo: SMN above BLM on every percentile.

Ignoring 100%, because nobody bases anything on that.

Thread: SMN 4.1 patch notes

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