RDM: Does it get fun at 70?

[Tzain]

No. The class is basically the same from 50 onward. It's very shallow. 60 and 70 are virtually interchangable.

Shallow compared to what?
I only ask because after I leveled Red and White I went back to Black Mage. So far I haven't really seen the 'complexity' that people mentioned. Did I just pick out the least complex ones by accident?

[Karshan]

Yes actually. It's not only about complexity of rotation it's the difference between a fight and a dummy.
BLM has one of the simplest rotations all skills considered. But it's one of the most difficult to use in a raid environment because it needs perfect conditions to do well, because of the timers and the order of things. In short : simple and elegant loop, but put sand in the gears, mess a spell, and...

Red mage : even more simple than BLM (who has less skills BUT a rotation). Here on RDM, really simple to keep track of your jauges no matter the environment. You have 4-5 base spells with no Dots to track, no timers, and it's just a metaphorical clockwork (neutral or proc - wind - neutral or proc - thunder - repeat until 80/80 or 40/40 if manafication up). You have ONE buff, that is on a long timer so buff optimization is not the hardest part.
The thing is : optimisation on RDM is a thing, and I don't master it, BUT basic rotation does a really decent job. Basic rotation on some other classes, doesn't work out very well.

[Tzain]

Yes actually. It's not only about complexity of rotation it's the difference between a fight and a dummy.

Makes sense to me and it lines up with what I've seen (also describes why Red Mage is more fun for me than Black Mage I think)
But as comparative value, which job would you consider moderately complex/most complex?

[Karshan]

First of all, when I'm talking difficulty, I'm talking reaching above 5k DPS. Any job is easy if improperly done (for instance a poorly handled SMN is even easier than RDM, less core skills).

Basically to me, sources of "difficulty" can be, from hardest to easiest :
- uptime and mechanics
- choice (whether in jauge filling, or order of skills, or delay of skills...)
- timers
- pets (because of clunkiness)
- dots
Because in a fight with a lot to focus on, those require surveillance and brain ressources and you won't do well in progress.

Everyone is concerned by n°1 so no real difference here (some are however more or less punished on that account)

Other 4 are why I don't associate RDM with complexity : RDM has only one of the four. But the worst : choice, regarding jauge filling. Except a lot of time, it's not true. You know what skill to use. And alternatives to the tic-tac-tic-tac are scarce, and belong to optimisation. So he even only gets half a point.

As for other jobs, I'd say there are several kind of approaches for each job, that I wouldn't dare classify (like that job is more difficult than that job, etc won't do that):

- The "set in stone rotation" : easy to see through on a dummy, come a real fight that's when you measure difficulty. It takes real ability to adapt, learning the fights, and your uptime is EVERYTHING (I know always be casting, but it hurts you even more than others). Not being able to put some skills is a deal breaker.
ex : DRG, BLM

- The "priority rotations" : you have timers, and combos, but can manage flexibility and building the jauge is not the worst part of the job. Be sure to keep up your timers
ex : NIN (core), SAM, MNK (core - see also below)

- The "build & burst rotations" : you have a burst. On a precise cooldown. Everything you do, everything you use, must lead you to have a precise set of skills available right on time, and usually they are locked behind your gauge management. You have room for uptime comfort, but oh so little, and if you mess up the build up and are not ready for the burst, you mess up big time.
ex : NIN (oGCDs, jauge spending) MCH, SMN (Bahamut)

- The "control room what have I forgotten again ?" : working in alternate big phases, where you fill up your jauges, but most importantly make sure you used all the right oGCDs in the right order, use all your procs, and left none of your several oGCDs untouched. In progression when you are focused on mechanics and have trouble multi tasking : a nightmare. Becomes ok with a lot (A LOT) of practice so the skill checking / timer following becomes muscle memory.
ex : BRD, SMN

MNK is apart : you either maintain GL3 or you seppuku