Regarding no DRK adjustments in 4.1

**Phileas** · 10-23-2017 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by KDSilver

"DRK also has zero party defensive skills"

I wonder what The Blackest Night actually is then !
Maybe just some other useless dark flashy skill

TBN is awful to use. Lag is terrible with TBN and can shave 2 of the 5 seconds of duration. So you have to time it pretty freakin well even if you want it to be remotely useful. Also it does a 10% HP shield on a SINGLE party member. TBN also costs 2400 MP. The 15 second CD implies you can use it for DPS but with Dark Arts/Souleater spam competing for your MP resource a some people argue that using TBN for DPS is a DPS loss. Even on tankbusters TBN is not very effective unless paired with rampart/shadow wall/awareness...

Its not comparable to Shake it off, Passage of Arms...These abilities can flat out reduce party damage and costs no resource and they are on relatively short cooldowns..

**Aana** · 10-23-2017 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Phileas

TBN is awful to use. Lag is terrible with TBN and can shave 2 of the 5 seconds of duration. So you have to time it pretty freakin well even if you want it to be remotely useful.

Its not lag. it takes effect after the animation completes. Same as EVERY skill in the game. Ever used HG/Hallowed/LD/Bene and still died even though the action went off and the CD has started? The animation needs to be done before the effect happens. You don't get 20% buff till after the 3rd 'swing' in Eye. If you use a jump immediately after disembowel, you don't get the piercing bonus because the effect isnt on the boss yet. IB/any defensive CD doesn't actually work until the animation finishes.

You don't 'lose' 2 seconds of time. You get the full 5 sec, its just delayed by the animation, just like everything in this game. TBN isn't any more gimped than every other action in the game when it comes to latency.

Originally Posted by Phileas

Also it does a 10% HP shield on a SINGLE party member. TBN also costs 2400 MP. The 15 second CD implies you can use it for DPS but with Dark Arts/Souleater spam competing for your MP resource a some people argue that using TBN for DPS is a DPS loss. Even on tankbusters TBN is not very effective unless paired with rampart/shadow wall/awareness...

Its not comparable to Shake it off, Passage of Arms...These abilities can flat out reduce party damage and costs no resource and they are on relatively short cooldowns..

Why does having a 15 sec CD 'imply' you can use it for DPS? If I have a stoneskin effect that can happen every 15 sec, my 1st thought is not "WOW imagine how much DPS ill do with a defensive shield every 15 sec." Its designed to be DPS neutral/nearly unperceivable gains/losses. Not sure why everyone thinks every button is supposed to be a spam on CD DPS increase. Any more than you should spam onslaught on CD. They are tools. Being DPS neutral means you have the freedom to use them freely as needed, not on CD. Sure you can minmax the situation to get a smidge of DPS out of abilities like this, but overall, just use it when the effect would be useful, not on CD.

Not every action needs to be a DPS increase you spam on CD. DPS neutral skills like onslaught, TBN, Sams Jump back>Jump in combo, etc etc are all just tools. They are all virtually DPS neutral which just lets you use them when you need to for the actual effect. You don't just spam every button the moment it comes up. These are tactical skills. Not part of your standard dps rotation any more than shirk or shake it off. Not every skill needs to INCREASE damage.

(this is not to say drk doesn't need a little boost in the dps department, but TBN is a tool skill. If drks dps is also centered around using it on CD it will stop being used as a defensive skill just like tank stance. It would just be used on CD regardless of intelligent mitigation use because MAH DEEPZ. Please don't do that to TBN.)

**KDSilver** · 10-04-2017 12:13 AM

Not saying drk has no problem.
But ignoring defensive utility he has...

**Crater** · 10-04-2017 12:14 AM

A single-target Shield is not "party mitigation".

The general theme of the 4.1 balance changes is that SE doesn't know what it's doing and is buffing classes that are already overpowered while mostly ignoring the ones that are actually behind.

**KDSilver** · 10-04-2017 12:21 AM

Party defensive skill doesn't involve to be able to put on everyone but "something you can do for your party".
And single target shield is one of those thing.

So this isn't the best we can find in the game, but drk still has something, and denying it is ridiculous.
If he said "we only have the blackest night but we need it for so many situations including our self mitigation", i would have said nothing.
But that's not what have been written.

**Crater** · 10-04-2017 01:00 AM

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Shielding one person is exactly as effective as shielding zero people when the whole party will be taking damage.

There are uses for a single-target shield - it's not nothing - but "party mitigation" is not one of them.

**Aana** · 10-04-2017 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by Crater

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Shielding one person is exactly as effective as shielding zero people when the whole party will be taking damage.

Yeah, if only there were mechanics that didn't target the entire party or required single target attention...oh wait...

/facepalm.

We get it. Drks the at the bottom of 3 tanks (by the slimmest margin of any tank balance historically mind you). That doesn't mean EVERYTHING about drk is broken. Sheesh. Just because drk is in the weakest position doesn't mean you can ignore what drk actually does have. Every drk ability isn't bad or broken. Every adjustment to another job isn't an attack on drk.

**Mithron** · 10-08-2017 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Aana

Every drk ability isn't bad or broken. Every adjustment to another job isn't an attack on drk.

Dark Passenger? Dark Mind?

**Kabooa** · 10-09-2017 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mithron

Dark Passenger? Dark Mind?

Just because it isn't useful in single target doesn't mean it's not useful. In any situation where you'd use DAAD, DADP does more damage and will prevent more damage.

Dark Mind is useful on magical tankbusters.

**Gravton** · 10-04-2017 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Crater

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Shielding one person is exactly as effective as shielding zero people when the whole party will be taking damage.
There are uses for a single-target shield - it's not nothing - but "party mitigation" is not one of them.

Your arguing semantics. Either way war didn't have a single target or party wide defensive buff.

Thread: Regarding no DRK adjustments in 4.1

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Hybrid View