Black Mage

[Llugen]

Would that also imply that Fire IV would refresh Astral? Interesting.

I think they like their timer system with Fire IV NOT refreshing but Fire III and Fire I can. Furthermore I feel like it might feel weird to spam Fire IV and get Firestarter procs then not want to use them because they are lower potency than just using another Fire IV (unless they were "stored" for movement, or Firestarter was given a potency increase over hardcast Fire III). Lastly, since there would no longer be a timer juggle (which would be a relief in a sense) it would inadvertently make the class more boring to play, which I think should be avoided.


Honest to goodness, the class is in such a bad spot right now that if I was a developer I would probably just overtune it for 4.2 and then tweak it down if necessary for 4.21 if it is discovered that it really DID become so powerful that people are just running quad BLM. See also "raw damage cannot be more valuable than well-synergized support damage".

[Remedi]

Would that also imply that Fire IV would refresh Astral? Interesting.

I think they like their timer system with Fire IV NOT refreshing but Fire III and Fire I can. Furthermore I feel like it might feel weird to spam Fire IV and get Firestarter procs then not want to use them because they are lower potency than just using another Fire IV (unless they were "stored" for movement, or Firestarter was given a potency increase over hardcast Fire III). Lastly, since there would no longer be a timer juggle (which would be a relief in a sense) it would inadvertently make the class more boring to play, which I think should be avoided.


Honest to goodness, the class is in such a bad spot right now that if I was a developer I would probably just overtune it for 4.2 and then tweak it down if necessary for 4.21 if it is discovered that it really DID become so powerful that people are just running quad BLM. See also "raw damage cannot be more valuable than well-synergized support damage".

Yes, it would refresh astral fire too, my idea is to make enochian more impactful by making it a powered state then the polyglot stacks could be used for more advanced spells in the future.

I do agree that they like the current iteration and probably won't change it,I like it too actually, in fact I'm thinking of it on a future basis, something they might do for an expansion not for a patch and I agree that they probably will overtune BLM to make it more likeable.
That said one can still dream

[Tzain]

Yes, it would refresh astral fire too, my idea is to make enochian more impactful by making it a powered state then the polyglot stacks could be used for more advanced spells in the future.

I do agree that they like the current iteration and probably won't change it,I like it too actually, in fact I'm thinking of it on a future basis, something they might do for an expansion not for a patch and I agree that they probably will overtune BLM to make it more likeable.
That said one can still dream

So basically Black Mage would be this
Blizz IV till full MP, Fire III, Fire IV till no MP, Blizz III, repeat?

And the only reason Blizz III and Fire III are in there is to cycle between the phases since the IV spells are locked up.

[Ali5553]

Actually, if they change the passive skill for scathe that gives 20% chance for double potency to that, it gets an elemental attribute depending on your current stance would solve some of the problems. Additionally scathe would then grant either 1 astral fire or 1 umbral ice depending on your stance. If you are in no stance then it deals neutral damage like it does now. to avoid making fire 1 obsolete, it would use the same MP as fire 1. However, since its instant cast its potency would be lower. I think a potency change in scathe from 100 to 160 would be enough. They can make foul work similarly except that it doesn't grant any AF or UI. I think these 2 changes alone would fix BLM a whole lot.

[Llugen]

I'm just going to say again that the difference between 468 potency (or 504, as it hopefully will be again) and 100/200 potency, or even 160 if that's what you're proposing is still VERY massive. (Don't forget to multiply in your Astral Fire III).

The beauty of Fire I is that not only is it 324 potency already but it also has a chance to grant Firestarter, so an instant cast Fire I into a Firestarter is actually a total potency gain over Fire IV and a MUCH smaller PPS loss than your Scathe proposal would be (plus that would mean 5.58 total seconds of movement with the Fire I + Firestarter scenario, over having to Scathe twice if you still need to move).


Here's some math, if it helps to convince you (using base cast times):

PPS of Fire IV at 280 base potency (504 total potency, i.e. if they decide to buff it) = 180
PPS of Fire I (324) = 129.6
PPS of Fire + Firestarter (324+432) = 151.2

PPS of Scathe even at 160 potency = 64
PPS of Scathe if it was fire aspected and 160 potency (288) = 115.2


The point that I am trying to prove is that BLM loses significantly more damage while moving than ANY other ranged job does. It should be punishing, yes, but right now it is FAR too punishing. Your suggestion with Scathe is STILL very punishing by losing 34% PPS. The Fire + Firestarter example is losing only 15% PPS and the Fire + Fire example is losing 28%. Please let's just retire Scathe already and fix spells that actually need fixing like Freeze and Sleep.

[zuzu-bq]

Fire+Firestarter is roughtly the same DPS of a Fire IV. Kinda hard to compare though because that would depend of amount of casts and other stuff. But sometimes F4 is more, sometimes the two spells are more.

[Ali5553]

@LIugen

well if u rely on fire starter to proc then its still rng and will not guarantee you to safe your enochian. my proposal is to not rely on fire starter too much but more consistency in the rotation. basically in the scenario where u have to move and u would like to refresh your AF to continue your rotation where u left off when u stop moving. So scathe takes the role of fire 1 during movement. the potency for scathe was just a suggestion u can further increase it however it will make fire1 and firestarter obsolete since it doesn't rely on rng. or one reserves sharp cast for fire 1 which is a dps loss since its better used with thunder.

[Llugen]

If we go with my previous Firestorm/Thunderstorm suggestion, then Fire IV > Fire IV > Fire from 3 Umbral Hearts will always result in a Firestarter, regardless of RNG.

While the example still uses RNG the point is that it's still less punishing to do two instant cast Fires back to back than it would be to do Scathe Scathe. You still WANT to use Fire IV and not move, but closing the punishment gap is extremely important. I am much happier with Scathe as an "execute" as something is about to die (with its current MP cost) and instead adjusting Fire I (imagine then that on the move the class would play like an instant cast 2.0 BLM) rather than trying to make Scathe into a pretend-Fire I during Astral and a Blizzard during Umbral. In my opinion, that is much better saved for Thunder/Thundercloud, which you also want to use for movement if possible.

[Ali5553]

instant casting fire4 while moving would be ideal, but i don't think they will go with something like that since its quite some changes.TBH if they want to make a pure dps class then they should be more aggressive with the potency they assign to said classes skills/spells. its always better to overshoot and later fine tune. regardless, my solution is more aimed towards the preserving enochian and your rotation after movement. making it less of a hassle.

[Ali5553]

how will that work with the spell speed gear? if they go with lower casting time fire 4. so it will be another DH and DET/Crit stacking class. I would like to see a more creative solution that tackles the fundamental problems with the class.