Black Mage

[Dualgunner]

so salty... who said they would instantly "fix" it?
They will do something bout that for sure but if you are honest there are other cls which are broken or need some love even more and way longer so keep it easy. Mnk should get some love first.

Why are people so obsessed with the idea that only one job can be buffed at a time?

[Neela]

Why are people so obsessed with the idea that only one job can be buffed at a time?

never said that - but if monks wait that long how can blm even think about getting a hot fix that fast? : /

They also have to figure out in which way they wanna fix that - its not like you would be happy if they just raise all pots by idk 20-50 right?
Longterm changes aren't made over night how often has the Blm community preyed that some month ago as smn were in a bad spot huh?

[Galvuu]

never said that - but if monks wait that long how can blm even think about getting a hot fix that fast? : /

Really? Do you even understand what the monks are complaining about?

From a performance perspective, monk is actually fine. It was an important melee job in Deltascape progression (world 1st had a Monk for mantra to help with Almagest), and it has cleared Ultimate.
Do you know what's the only job that has no cleared Ultimate? That's right ) Black Mage, the worst job in the game right now. Literally every other job in the game has cleared Ultimate. And you want to convince me it's not in the worst spot of all right now?
Monk has good synergy with most meta jobs and is a respectable job on its own.

The issue monks have is how the job feels to play- that RoF/FoF is a clunky mechanic, that they have a ton of useless skills, that decreasing SkS on a speedy job is counter-intuitive to their design and that it had no major change in playstyle since HW which made it stale.
In terms of performance, it's fairing pretty well- it's not as good as Summoner, Bard or Ninja, but it's surely better than Black Mage, Red Mage and Samurai.
Samurai is actually mostly a strictly worse Monk. It has a bit more damage, but no utility whatsoever. The gap isn't as bad as Black Mage VS Summoner, but in general Monk is preferable to Samurai (which is why it cleared Ultimate way sooner).

Do you even raid? Because your assessment of what needs the most help (and why, something that you never bother to go into in-depth) is pretty silly, to be honest. Even for melees, it seems obvious Samurai is in the worst spot, and both Red Mage and Black Mage are somewhat worse off than that.
Afraid to perform if Summoner isn't literally the most powerful dps job in the game like it's been since the last batch of buffs?

(P.S.: Black Mage and Monk have both sucked for roughly the same time- they started heavily falling out of favour mid-Midas, because they basically did the same thing; a lot of personal dps. Guess you weren't raiding in the double-ranged metacomp huh.)

[Lina_Slayer]

never said that - but if monks wait that long how can blm even think about getting a hot fix that fast? : /

Because you are clearly worried about MNK right? I've read all your posts on this thread and on all the others regarding BLM issues and it's clear you hate the class and want us to be as weak as possible. Quoting the user Zerathor from another thread because he was perfect on how you SMN mains think:

"Its always summoners who can't understand this as well. like they've been spoon fed for almost 2 years as the primary casting role, and now they're terrified of the other casters being relevant. Even the very idea of making other casting dps viable terrifies a smn. We want to talk about the true "selfish" dps caster, it isn't black mage."

[Dualgunner]

never said that - but if monks wait that long how can blm even think about getting a hot fix that fast? : /

They also have to figure out in which way they wanna fix that - its not like you would be happy if they just raise all pots by idk 20-50 right?
Longterm changes aren't made over night how often have the Blm community praised that some month ago as smn were in a bad spot huh?

You never said that--and then go right back to saying it.

[Neela]

lol no I don't hate Blm - I hate the hypercritical behavior from most of the Blms Player, espacially the loudest cry-babys who actually were those people who make fun of us some month ago "chill out guys or just switch cls" - "deal with that" etc thats a huge difference - but now? saw any smn who talk like that nowadays?

Mnks might do well in raids but in every other content they suck as well as their whole toolkit - savage & dps is not the only thing to judge a cls or cls design at. Mnks toolkit and Smn cls-design still suck balls even if they are on top of raid dps. But the cls are not fine on their base - its short viewed to say that, and demand just a Blm pot hot fix to climb the letter again if it doesn't solve anything else.

[Galvuu]

Mnks might do well in raids but in every other content they suck as well as their whole toolkit - savage & dps is not the only thing to judge a cls or cls design at. Mnks toolkit and Smn cls-design still suck balls even if they are on top of raid dps. But the cls are not fine on their base - its short viewed to say that, and demand just a Blm pot hot fix to climb the letter again if it doesn't solve anything else.

What on Earth are you talking about.
Raids are literally the most relevant content in the game, and it's the primary content around which PvE balance is done (since we have a PvP and PvE split- and thank the Twelve we do, those should never mix).
What is this "other content" in which monks suck?

Dungeons? Why do monks suck in dungeons? How do you even suck in dungeons? It's faceroll content. I can take 4 white mages or 4 paladins and clear every dungeon in this game. The god damn sucky-AI squadron can clear dungeons as a 3 man unit. I can afk and they'll clear it except some bosses.

Damage and utility in raids is exactly what we balance dps jobs around.

Nobody even talked like that about Summoner. Find me a post where I said that. Yet you come here and just berate everyone without a single coherent reason to justify any of your point.
Not only do you play the most powerful job in the game, you come here to ramble utter nonsense.

God I know I'm getting trolled, but this kind of post is everything wrong with everything everywhere.
It's bad enough you have no clue of what you're saying, but to actually disrupt reasonable discussion...

P.S. (again): Monks are actually pretty good in PotD too, with Mantra and the ability to have a stun and a silence. They're imho the best melee for that content. So I literally do not know what content you're talking about.

[Neela]

Damage and utility in raids is exactly what we balance dps jobs around.

if you take dmg over cls/toolkit design ill wonder why smn was called broken with sb - cause if we just look at dmg eirene and some other did shows that smn actually was way stronger at release than people admit but the cls design was so dumb that most of the com couldn't archive it. we actually never cried for DPS INCREASE or TOP RAID-RANKING POSITION we cried about the bad design and stack punishment. they tried to change that and the outcome was more dps but it was not just a pot buff like Blm now demand... : /

so yeah for me its as important how a cls gameplay is not just how much e-penis numbers I can share on fflogs or communities... and I guess most smn thought that way back in the days. For most of you its just about making the most dmg again. And thats exactly whats the difference is.

[Galvuu]

snip

And Summoner was actually better at release than most people said. It was just very hard to execute- like you said, Eirene showed that you could excel with it.
Regardless of what anyone said, Summoner right now is completely eclipsing not only the other two casters, but a number of other jobs (even Samurai).
That's just the reality of it, and that's what we need to take into account.

You don't raid- it's obvious by your arguments and your poor understanding how jobs interact with each other. That's perfectly okay, but that also means you don't understand most of the problems and struggles being discussed here.
I've been playing bard for months, and I'm pushing through Ultimate with Bard also. And I don't want to. I want to progress in Ultimate with Black Mage, because it's my favourite job.
But we're working through Nael (and have seen the beginning of Bahamut a few times) and I know that I'm just going to be handicapping my team if I bring Black Mage. It's too punishing (and we're gonna lose the Refresh and the Troubadour for the Fireballs/Thermionic Beams).
I literally cannot go play the job I love unless I'm willing to greatly diminish our chances to clear the fight and force my team to do a much greater effort to adjust to my crappy job.
(Like I said, every other job in the game has cleared this fight except Black Mage).

This is what this thread and discussion is about.
And until you go into Ultimate and start working on Nael then, I'm sorry, you simply have no idea what we're discussing here and how incredibly unfair it feels.
This is about a piece of content that's incredibly important for a portion of the playerbase (the same portion to whom balance is critical) which practically invalidates one of the jobs.
Nowhere else is balance as important as O3/O4S and, above all, Ultimate.

[Shiroe]

mnk overall is still in a fine postion, even if nin is close on its heels with more utility; and even if mnk isnt as "perfect" as a sam...

but a mnk in a full melee comp can even be close to sam's dps numbers.. and other classes have imo bigger issues