Black Mage

[Llugen]

To further illustrate, the difficulty lies in that there is generally one reserved caster spot, and all three should make an argument for why they are viable for the position.

It's a sad truth, but the truth of the matter is flat out that any "power creep" damage wise from the other jobs, RDM included, literally puts BLM further behind in the minds of parties as far as desirability goes. Hence, the job really does not need more personal damage, only more offensive utility to surpass devotion + radiant shield (+contagion). Any more personal damage can and will usurp BLM's "pure damage" position, particularly as it relates to handling mechanics (it is actually impossible to be 100% efficient on BLM, while it is possible on RDM, or if you don't like 100, the maximum efficiency of RDM will always be higher than the maximum efficiency of BLM due to its ability to move and handle mechanics.)

[Dualgunner]

I think even worse, is all three casters are fighting for one spot as well as against physical dps as well. I am completely behind offensive utility buffs for Red Mage; I don't know if you saw it or not because of the page cutoff, but I do agree with you a lot on the adjustments needed. I just don't think RDM should be left alone; especially if Black Mage gets overbuffed as we've seen SE do with jobs that need fixes, RDM would then be the only Not-God caster. Even better, if RDM got a buff to its offensive utility to aid magic damage as well, maybe that would help even more to put BLM on the map.

[Llugen]

Unless they REALLY buff BLM’s single target damage, it would still be shunned by parties over RDM unless there is a justifiable enough damage gap between the two, so it really is a brother-against-brother relationship, sadly.

A multiple caster comp could really only be viable when we get a magic damage tank. Otherwise, physical meta is just too strong. Imagine Mystic Knight PLD WHM AST BLM NIN SMN RDM.
Even then if all three casters are fighting for loot, it probably wouldn’t be good progression wise unless they change the way the loots work even further than pages (not to mention LB)

[Dualgunner]

I'm hoping we get a Blue Mage tank in 5.0 either way.

I also wouldn't be opposed if they started diversifying caster gear at that point; melees all have different gear practically.

You say unless...I say there's no choice but to. Black Mage needs to be on or above the same tier as SAM, and right now it just isn't; even then, both need some damage boosts from the current tier that SAM is at now.

Does limit break get stunted with multiple casters? I thought that was just for regular class stacking.

[Llugen]

Consider as well that parties want to BE FED, not to FEED. Even if BLM's damage was above SAM damage, it would still mean less party buffs for the whole group and more feeding/catering to one player, and that alone is big enough reason for just about every party to desire RDM over BLM no matter how much higher the damage is (hence my fear of the power creep)

The LB is slowed with double jobs not roles, yes, but if there were say 4 casters in the comp that would mean no melee LB3, which would likely be problematic. Plus, this further reinforces the need for NIN, as it has magic damage (raiton, hellfrog, etc) and of course the tyranny of trick attack. And besides, to help deter BRD+MCH, perhaps the LB really SHOULD be double roles and not double jobs.

[Remedi]

BLM needs to be above SAM power level for the simple reason of the lack of magical buffs in the game, as for the gearing problem realistically only RDM and SMN really share gearing since BLM prefers spell speed (besides the splitting of physical gear is problematic since the inventory issue of the game).

I Think Xenosys explained the power creep problem very well when he said that now everyone has fell cleave, which hurts more when we consider that we got nerfed in the 4.0, I feared that the fire4 nerf + raging strike loss was scary, I was told it was fine and well......not really, I do understand that they wanted to close the gap between enochian and non enochian rotations, but that + the power creep of other jobs led to this situation and because of that I think we should get a small potency buff in some way (it doesn't need to be a straight +20 potency buff to F4, it can be something else)

[Kabooa]

I think we should get a small potency buff in some way (it doesn't need to be a straight +20 potency buff to F4, it can be something else)

A real stupid idea I totally suggested once upon a time was that every use of Fire 4 increased Fire spell potency by 10, reset when AF ends. It intrinsically adds value to Blizzard 4 and boosts up the convert window as well. You could combine this with B4 also providing UI3's speed boost to the fire spells it benefits and suddenly Black Mage is machine gunning out ramping Fire spells.

[Remedi]

I think that adding that effect to umbral heart would make our rotation odd since it would make foul not coming up during UI

[Kabooa]

I think that adding that effect to umbral heart would make our rotation odd since it would make foul not coming up during UI

I'm going to blow your mind with this one, but you don't have to have a perfect 30 second Foul timer / UI window.

[OgruMogru]

I wonder if foul could refresh/grant 3 stacks of whatever UI/AF stance you're in. That would make using it during AF less annoying and would help transition back into AF rotation after a transposed UI phase. Maybe that's too generous though.