Black Mage

[HaroldSaxon]

If you make a class have enough dps to surpass sinergy of buffs it'll be hilariously broken for 95% of the playerbase, if it happens in 4.2 the inevitable nerf or huge buffs to everything else will probably return us to the current status...

Right now a MCH (for example) outdpses a BLM and even a SAM if you consider total damage contribution (personal damage + raid damage) by quite a bit, however it only happens because the healers will be dpsing hard during Hypercharge, the Warrior will be using Berserk + Inner Release and everyone else will be using all their 1 min or 2 min buffs during that time, if you happen to have a Warrior who is always on defiance, healers who don't dps or dpsers who miss their burst windows, the contribution of hypercharge ( or trick atack os anything else, i'm using MCH as an example because I actually play the class) drops hard, making a selfish class that can outdps all this sinergy will be super broken in lower skill groups.

95% of the playerbase can't play classes that well anyway, so I doubt it would affect them!

[Lina_Slayer]

95% of the playerbase can't play classes that well anyway, so I doubt it would affect them!

It's the exactly opposite, it would make a good BLM super broken on lower skill groups and it'll be only balanced on the top 5% (or less) of the player base.

[Remedi]

I'm not saying that SAM is a success, I'm stating that they are considered a selfish job and still have a form of utility for the group even if it is a weak one.
Which makes them better than BLM because they have nothing for the group but their dmg.

I said that MCH can be considered selfish given how their toolkit is extremely dps centric and how hypercharge has a huge impact on them considering the interaction with WF.
Which means that their support abilities are passives bcause they come off something they would do normally and I argue that the same should be applied to SAM and BLM.

[Maero]

I just hope the so called potency "buffs" upcoming does not bring along with it changes to smn down the road again and make the changes mute.
Perhaps they should ask the opinion of the top tier black mages rather then just implement whatever changes, lol
True smn is not always on top but the gap sure is big enough between it and blm, it is very disturbing for all of us especially those who have mained blm forever

[Llugen]

That's the catch, though, they can't make it SOOO much higher that it breaks the class for 4-man and casual content/groups. They can't justify BLM having DOUBLE the damage output potential of the next highest dealer; it would break the already very fragile balance of their game (note just how much they boast "any standard comp of 2/2/4 can clear just about anything).


I'm keeping up in the discord about the Thunder maths, but that still doesn't reassure me. I would much rather see this ridiculous logic of "raw damage no utility" just be wiped clean from the entire game. It's a 4.0 precedent anyway; BLM had access to Apoc/Eye for an Eye/Virus/Lethargy(which actually was pretty useful since it didn't need to be hardcast)/Manaward AND Manawall (for helping soak busters solo tank) beforehand, so it's not like the job has "always been" this way. Every class deserves some utility/buff for the other players in the party, even if it's just a 180s recast party wide stat buff like Battle Litany. (this is why I suggest "Aetherial Radiance")

[Remedi]

From the other thread:

To give an example on why I think Hypercharge could be used as a model.

Imagine a Manadrive ability for BLM: increases the potency of ALL your spells by 20 for 20 secs(?) additional effect: Magical dmg done by you increases target chance to be direct hit by 4% last 5 secs CD 120 secs (ofc all numbers are PH)

It would grant us a Burst and a source of raid dps (plus a unique effect)

I don't think that alone would let us become support, our toolkit would still be too much dps centric but it would allow us to bring something

[Remedi]

Maybe we should find a common place on what lower skill and high skill is, sometimes I get the feelings that personal interpretations gets in the way

[Kabooa]

Maybe we should find a common place on what lower skill and high skill is, sometimes I get the feelings that personal interpretations gets in the way

Upkeeps Enochian, doesn't overwrite foul, maintains T3 DoT, goes from 100-0 in Fire and 0-100 in ice. Basic mastery of the job's main gameplay mechanics.

Leylines, Convert, Sharp and Triple would be where you start going from basic to intermediate.

Slide casting, proc management, and specific holding / use of Swift/Triple/AM/BTL to minimize manual movement would be moving into advanced.

In Black Mage's current set up, you hit about 75-85% of your potential max on a dummy test with just the basics, move up to 85-100% with the intermediate, and whether or not you can maintain that is where the advanced section comes into play regarding actual boss encounters.

[Remedi]

Seems about fair enough

[HaroldSaxon]

That depends on if the 10k is just a baseline increase (potency) or skill based (ability interactions).

As it stands, it's not difficult to hit 80% of a job's output, meaning the 10k example would have most players doing 8k DPS.

Well I obviously wasn't being serious about the 10k DPS example, but every class has a discrepancy between perfect play and 80% of a jobs input. From a personal standpoint, i'd welcome extra difficulty with BLM (be it APM based difficulty or adaptation based difficulty), but if that happened I feel that it would need to happen across the board to all classes. But that absolutely is not the issue here - that's the skill floor of the class - not the ceiling which is the issue here.