An idea to help roulette queue times

[Gravton]

I would rather the item just give me xp on the current job (swap jobs and use) so I wouldn't even need to que as dps. But your way works too.

[BillyKaplan]

1 tank's dps alt's queue would be faster after they push 2 dps through the queue.

You're looking at pure numbers and ignoring how the system actually works. Also far too small a sample group. Let's say I'm dps #10. Our tank queues and gets #1 and #2 out of the queue. I'm #8 now. By the time I'm #6 our tank has finished their run and queues up again as dps. Suddenly I'm #7. Now you might say, sure, no one's going to run the leveling roulette twice in a single day, you lose the bonus. Ok. So that's not our hypothetical tank, it's a tank who's using their scroll from yesterday. Oh and here comes another one, and another, and before I know it I'm #15. How is that not making my queue longer? Any other way of this priority queue working would make it not worth it because even with the scroll you'll still wait in queue despite running it as a tank so why bother? Just take the queue.

On top of hurting queues, you're also asking players to run roulettes on something they don't want to run on to reach the same results as had they ran something they do want to play. The benefits would have to be much higher than just that x2.2 exp bonus. I'm still going to run 4 leveling roulettes, right? I wanna play on my RDM which I am leveling. Why do I have to tank two of them to eventually reach the same end-result? A lot of people will take the queue over being forced to play a class they finished leveling.

[winsock]

You're looking at pure numbers and ignoring how the system actually works. Also far too small a sample group.

I'm not. I don't think you understand why sample sizes are important.

Let's say I'm dps #10. Our tank queues and gets #1 and #2 out of the queue. I'm #8 now. By the time I'm #6 our tank has finished their run and queues up again as dps. Suddenly I'm #7. Now you might say, sure, no one's going to run the leveling roulette twice in a single day, you lose the bonus. Ok. So that's not our hypothetical tank, it's a tank who's using their scroll from yesterday. Oh and here comes another one, and another, and before I know it I'm #15. How is that not making my queue longer?

In an ironic twist, this is a case of the sample size being too small. What you are describing could happen (i.e. seeing your position jump up); however, your position in queue is irrelavant if the average time you spend waiting decreases. The reason you your queue will not be longer on average is because there are far fewer tanks than dps, and each tank creates more dps slots than they take.

Let's say for the sake of example, that I join 50/60 roulette and you join shortly after as dps. Currently, I will not join this queue on my max level tank as there is no real benefit. Instead, I queue on my dps in position #40, so your position is #41.

If the scroll existed and I didnt have one, I would queue on my tank. I join as tank instead of dps + clear #1 and #2 out of the dps queue. This means your position when you enter the queue is #38 instead of #41. I pushed you up 3 positions by queuing as tank. Even if i pushed you back 1 position the next day, it is a net gain for you overall. In your example you are pushed from position #6 to position #15, this is only possible if ppl pushed u from say, position #40 to position #13-#22 the day before. Now granted, it probably wont work out perfectly like that from day to day, but your average wait time overall will go down.

you're also asking players to run roulettes on something they don't want to run on to reach the same results as had they ran something they do want to play. The benefits would have to be much higher than just that x2.2 exp bonus. I'm still going to run 4 leveling roulettes, right? I wanna play on my RDM which I am leveling. Why do I have to tank two of them to eventually reach the same end-result? A lot of people will take the queue over being forced to play a class they finished leveling.

I'm not asking that at all. It's the opposite. I am a tank main and enjoy tanking, I get to tank more while still being able alt a dps every now and again. I would be playing more of the role I enjoy most. At the same time, I am also decreasing the average wait time for other roles, so that DPS classes dont wait so long to play what they enjoy.

[DeaconMoore]

So you want tanks to level faster over all dps classes & cut in line so they can do that even faster. And when said tanks finish leveling what they want, then what?

Sure the tank isn't queuing and using dps slots while cutting in line but your incentive to tank is gone again.

So you accomplish getting tank players out of the dps queue sooner but long term fail to keep tank players in the tank queue.

[winsock]

So you accomplish getting tank players out of the dps queue sooner but long term fail to keep tank players in the tank queue.

Good feedback, and definitely true. Even though this would more than double the lifespan of existing tanks, eventually, these tanks will stop tanking low level.

There is 1 permanent and lasting advantage here though:
Currently, tanks lose incentive to tank low level after maxing their tanks. They then queue as dps, which increases the queue time for dps classes. With the proposed feature, they lose their incentive to tank at low level at the same time they lose their incentive to queue as dps at low level, which will have a lasting and positive impact on dps queue times.

[DeaconMoore]

Good feedback, and definitely true. Even though this would more than double the lifespan of existing tanks, eventually, these tanks will stop tanking low level.

There is 1 permanent and lasting advantage here though:
Currently, tanks lose incentive to tank low level after maxing their tanks. They then queue as dps, which increases the queue time for dps classes. With the proposed feature, they lose their incentive to tank at low level at the same time they lose their incentive to queue as dps at low level, which will have a lasting and positive impact on dps queue times.

Not really.

Fewer and fewer tanks in the queue as the expansion drags on isn't ever going to be positive for dps queue times. And it's further compounded when you consider you'll have groups of tank players tanking for each other with your "I played a tank priority dps queue" leaving dps that don't tank in the dust early in the expansion.

IF they let XP to an alt job be an incentive, it'd be better as a token to be redeemed and have nothing to do with the queues.

[Coatl]

A bit convoluted but it's not a bad idea. The easiest solution would just to design dungeons with 3 DPS instead of 2, or go back and retroactively allow 3 DPS in older dungeons.

[PondHollow]

Honestly it might be better to just focus on the Adventurer in Need bonus. Sweeten the drops and gil by particular increments if a scarcity of a particular measure has persisted over a particular period (SE can figure out the specifics), and incrementally undo the sweetening on the affected class rewards as the scarcity eases up, and we might have equilibrium.

edit -

A bit convoluted but it's not a bad idea. The easiest solution would just to design dungeons with 3 DPS instead of 2, or go back and retroactively allow 3 DPS in older dungeons.

This is a superb idea.

[Firesped]

this won't help. There are 2 issues. the DPS queue is simply solved by increasing party size to 5, added an additional DPS slot to clear out the dps queues.

The second issue is the Adventurer in Need bonus itself. Giving XP bonus to jobs that are in need makes the problem worse.
because:
#1: with fewer number, they get instant queue already.
#2: bonus xp means they need less dungeon runs to get to top level.

The people in need of the bonus are the dps that have to wait longer to do content. Meaning they have less access to doing content, where the current bonus is going to jobs that can do more content because they get instant or near instant queues.

[Dortharl]

this won't help. There are 2 issues. the DPS queue is simply solved by increasing party size to 5, added an additional DPS slot to clear out the dps queues.

Unfortunately there is nothing simple about this suggestion, they would have re-tune every single dungeon for this to work and there is no evidence that this would provide a long term fix, even after increasing party size and re-tuning the dungeons there would still be an imbalance and if trends continue that imbalance would increase the same way it does now.

Also the exp bonus argument is only really relevant while levelling, I as a max level tank don't care about XP bonuses, I run roulette for the tokens so i can upgrade my gear if there is no token reward (or if the reward is a token I don't require) than I don't run that roulette.

I think the only real fix for the issue is the one that is the most difficult to implement and that is to make the tanking and healing classes more desirable. They already tried this in a way with DK but I think they will need to go further than that if they want to deal with the imbalance.

Frankly I have no idea what SE were thinking relasing 2 DPS classes at once, while DK and AST didn't fix the problem long term I still remember when I was levelling my DK and I saw Adventurer in need DPS.

Honestly this is not an easy fix but it's the only one that will sort out the issue long term.