Monk ignored for 4.1

**Kahnom** · 09-30-2017 12:57 PM

People that don't get it always bring up the dps isssue....
Which is not what we're ask for.
We need useful ability to help us Evole but right now LV 66 traits is worse than Devolve.its completely useless.
Even Brotherhood,Deep mediation traits,Riddle of Fire,Tornado Kick are not actually help mnk evolves into the right direction-
But they're still have their uses in the right situation/circumstances.
NOT Tackle Mastery though,NO,it shouldn't exist in the 1st place.
It should be replace with more useful traits like ...for each Forbidden Chakra used,Perfect Balance,Brotherhood,ROF cooldown reduce by 5-10 seconds.

**Powercow** · 09-30-2017 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Is there another Monk in an 8-man PUG? Well one of you is going to miss the party buff window or lose out on your Brotherhood because they overwrite eachother.

This is my biggest gripe with MNK at the moment.

Before any of you other dumb DPS say "oh but Trick Attack doesn't stack! Battle litany doesn't stack! Foe's Requiem doesn't stack!" Those are raid cooldowns. You can use Battle Litany whenever. You can have one ninja use TA for his first ninjutsu, and the other use raiton or fuma. Then do TA on the second with no DPS loss. Brotherhood is, first and foremost, a monk personal DPS cooldown.

Imagine like, only 1 Black Mage being able to use Enochian, or 1 Dragoon able to use their Eyes (the other guy just loses theirs lol sucks for him). Or only one Bard being able to use any song at all. It's baffling.

**RLofOBFL** · 09-30-2017 01:37 PM

How was "most" of my post wrong? I mean maybe my issues statement but everything else was my opinion or a fact and neither of those can be wrong. I willl admit i didn't cover every issue of MNK and kinda condensed it....and forgot about one ilm punch admittedly(it's that useless!). The reason MNK isn't getting huge overhauls a la smn is because it's mostly fine. It isn't broken, it does good damage, people play it. It does actually have a few issues but none of them are very big. I was actually just gonna not respond bc it felt like too much work but after a few hours I decided to....I was a little visicous and unclear anyway x.x

Mnk hasn't really been the fastest since ninja was released. They get the exact same speed buff. Mnk being the gotta go fast whatever is a personal gripe and to me that isn't mnk.

Arm of the destroyer, is actually not bad. You'd use it on any dual pull or more. 50 potency per enemy essentially means you'd use it with 4 or more. The silence is useless though. Purification is for AoE. You use your chakra on that instead of FC so you can keep Aoeing.

All of the fist stances, I actually kinda meant to include them when I said Tackle Mastery, to me it was synonymous. They feel tacked on and mostly useless.

One Ilm punch having the unresisted stun isn't bad but it requiring you to be in a stance makes it useless, but a lot of classes share this trait of having useless skills so meh. That is not exclusive to mnk so...they have a lot of work to do really.

Perfect Balance is a tad long but at most I'd say make it 90 seconds. The ENTIRE point of MNK is to have a simple rotation that does a lot of damage. What makes it hard is trying to keep up GL. That IS your mechanic. The devs have made that very clear from the start with how they've done mnk skills regardless what you might think. So any complaint you have about keeping GL goes in one ear and out the other. However!! Long boss transitions are extremely annoying and unfair to the mnk, but a 90 second PB would fix that for nearly every fight.

Forbidden chakra could probably use a slight animation/CD reduction but i mean....that clearly isn't an issue for top dps mnks that rival SAM and BLM so it'd just end up a flat dps buff to get even more FCs in.

Earth's reply actually adds on to the whole attempt to keep GL, sorta. In a lot of cases you can keep GL if you time it right. Making it just refresh your GL would go against the difficulty of the job, sorta. But again long boss transitions with no damage are kinda unfair.

I do not believe MNK should be able to just reapply GL willy nilly like DRG. MNK's rotation is simple. DRG's isn't. That was unfair that in HW DRG had to not only try to keep up BOTD but they had a complex rng sprinkled rotation. So they made it simpler, now DRG only needs to really remember its rotation and spam its many ogcds. MNK only has to keep up GL, it doesn't have a complicated rotation or an excessive amount of ogcds.

Brotherhood. This is the rng mechanic. I wanna say 6(?) classes in this game have rng mechanics that make their dps skyrocket if they get lucky(esp in brd's case). Again not really unique to MNK. But MNKs rng mechanic will buff party dps regardless of if it actually gives you personal damage. And it only affects phys....well smn's debuff only affects magic so ...idk /shrug. I actually didn't know BH was overwritten by BH(maybe I shouldn't be talking then huh) but that is pretty stupid and feels like a huge oversight.

I personally don't really care about RoF, I like the idea of being a powerhouse for 20 seconds.I was rather unspecific when I just said TK and tackles were the issues but I consider those huge issues since it's like they added a bunch of nothing in SB and that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. And TK just got a reduced cd so players that don't know any better just use it at every gl3 >.>. I think MNK is better off than HW though. Yes it has issues but so do a lot of other classes, and mnks really arent that bad in comparison to some.

Except maybe BH not stacking. Srs SE?

**era1Ne** · 09-30-2017 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

It's the fact nothing has changed aside from a couple of offgcds since ARR.

Monk is not my main class anymore, because i like healing more, but imo monk always played fine and doesn't need an new rotation or something. For me the class is still fun, despite riddle of fire making you slower. The only real issue for me is that Wind is more or less useless still. They should change something there.

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

At least the Devs have GL4 for Monks if enough monks complain.. The entire Healer role has no answer.

Healers are fine atm and need only very little tweaks here and there.

**Bernkastelx** · 09-30-2017 03:51 PM

Healers are fine? Guess sch is dps then.

**Grimoire-M** · 09-30-2017 03:57 PM

Simple fixes to Monk include:
- One Ilm Punch granting a GL stack instead of stunning.
- In light of this, Tornado Kick gets its cooldown increased to 60s.
- Make Elixir Field/Howling Fist/Steel Peak independent GCDs like Empyreal Arrow on BRD, with TP costs to compensate for their ability to be affected by GL's weaponskill reduction.
- Freeze GL's duration during Riddle of Earth.
- Remove Earth's Reply and simply apply the effect during Riddle of Earth baseline.
- Increase the duration of Riddle of Wind and persist after switching back to FoF so it's actually useful for splitting off to a critical add and back to the boss.
- Allow Riddle of Wind to persist even after switching stances.
- Increase the damage of Fire Tackle.
- Remove the stuns on Fire/Wind Tackle while increasing the stun of Earth Tackle.
- Allow Brotherhood to affect spells. Reduce the proc rate to 15-20% to compensate.
- I can't speak to how necessary removing the attack speed reduction on Riddle of Fire is, but as someone who plays a lot of doubleweaving classes (BRD/SMN) and is on the east coast in a semi-rural area I think it'd matter to me if it was removed. Can't speak for everyone though. I'd probably buff it's damage increase instead.

Things MNK actually needs in the future:
- An oGCD/proc that rewards you for having GL3 up. Either a Foul-mechanic or a proc that triggers whenever you use a Coerul form skill while GL3 is up. This could even be Chakra.
- Give more Chakra abilities. Really just an AoE to pick instead of The Forbidden Chakra.
- Buff Fists of the Destroyer by 10-20 potency. It doesn't need a lot due to how much surplus TP we have, just enough to be worth using against most mobs.

**era1Ne** · 09-30-2017 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

- Freeze GL's duration during Riddle of Earth.

Some good suggestions, but this change would be boring imo, since trying to find ways to keep the stacks up is part of the fun, despite being sometimes frustrating, if you can't find a way. Maybe, they could use riddle of wind to either reduce the cd of balance or to freeze the timer for a few seconds instead of an permanent freeze.

Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

Healers are fine? Guess sch is dps then.

What?

Anyway not the topic to discuss this. But i'd like to know what your opinion about the class is in the healer sub forum.

**Grimoire-M** · 09-30-2017 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by era1Ne

Some good suggestions, but this change would be boring imo, since trying to find ways to keep the stacks up is part of the fun, despite being sometimes frustrating, if you can't find a way. Maybe, they could use riddle of wind to either reduce the cd of balance or to freeze the timer for a few seconds instead of an permanent freeze.

To be honest, It's only if the One Ilm Punch change doesn't get implemented that I'd make that specific RoE change. The OIP change reduces the wind up time in half, after all. It's short enough to spam the current Tornado Kick.

**NovaLevossida** · 09-30-2017 09:30 PM

I don't get what they're doing or the reasoning behind it. MNK has good enough damage, but it's how it plays that's the issue. So they leave it alone. Meanwhile, they address a lot of SMN's issues. It was already doing as much damage or more than BLM, so they give them some buffs. I don't see why they'd have SMN with more utility / combat raise do more damage than BLM (and BLM is already doing less damage than SAM despite filling the same "selfish DPS" role but with cast times). And similarly, I don't see why they'd leave MNK where it is with how it feels to play. It used to be my melee of choice. Now I just don't play melees.

Maybe there's something for MNK in the patch notes down the line. But those 4.0 changes didn't entice me to stick with it, and I'm not optimistic about changes held until the last minute.

**Tigore** · 10-01-2017 01:34 PM

I had been thinking that monk needs some more abilities borrowed from other games to add more fun with flashy spells. I would probably suggest Dolphin Blow (Single Target FF7 and FF8), Flame Dance (AoE FF6 Blitz), Air Blade (AoE FF6 Blitz), and maybe Phantom Rush (Single Target FF6 Blitz also known as Bum Rush). I would have said Aura Beam from FF6 Blitz, but it's kind of in game already as Elixir Field. As for how these spells can be applied, it can be up for debate if it should be oGCD, GCD, a replacement for some old spells, or even an input command with weaponskills. Since the expansion is already out, it is likely easier to just have them use Chakra and offer ways to get Chakra from the rotation such as using a Couerl move with 3 GL stacks up (as suggested by Grimoire-M).

For the Fist Stances, they would probably just work better as cooldowns or baked into other existing cooldowns / traits. Fist of Earth I have only used soloing and Fist of Wind when the boss has their "chicken intermission". It's a wonder these are still in game since Fists of Fire is the useful one "95%" of the time.

For Tornado Kick, I have only used it on enemies about to die from one hit. One way to buff it is to make it do a really heavy burst attack, but that might jack up some PvP matches. It should probably provide a self buff that speeds up the acquisition of GL stacks or reduce the cooldown of Perfect Balance based on how many stacks it "eats up".

For One Ilm Punch and Arms of the Destroyer, they definitely need a rework. The stun and silence is too short and needing a specific stance makes them unreliable anyhow. I am thinking they might as well be our AoE choices for Opopo and Raptor stance with a buff to around 70 - 100 potency to make them worth it for 4+ targets. To compensate, the stun and silence can be removed. This might even be the big chance to put in ideas like Flame Dance and Air Blade as replacements if time permits.

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