Thread: Monk ignored for 4.1

I don't get what they're doing or the reasoning behind it. MNK has good enough damage, but it's how it plays that's the issue. So they leave it alone. Meanwhile, they address a lot of SMN's issues. It was already doing as much damage or more than BLM, so they give them some buffs. I don't see why they'd have SMN with more utility / combat raise do more damage than BLM (and BLM is already doing less damage than SAM despite filling the same "selfish DPS" role but with cast times). And similarly, I don't see why they'd leave MNK where it is with how it feels to play. It used to be my melee of choice. Now I just don't play melees.

Maybe there's something for MNK in the patch notes down the line. But those 4.0 changes didn't entice me to stick with it, and I'm not optimistic about changes held until the last minute.

I had been thinking that monk needs some more abilities borrowed from other games to add more fun with flashy spells. I would probably suggest Dolphin Blow (Single Target FF7 and FF8), Flame Dance (AoE FF6 Blitz), Air Blade (AoE FF6 Blitz), and maybe Phantom Rush (Single Target FF6 Blitz also known as Bum Rush). I would have said Aura Beam from FF6 Blitz, but it's kind of in game already as Elixir Field. As for how these spells can be applied, it can be up for debate if it should be oGCD, GCD, a replacement for some old spells, or even an input command with weaponskills. Since the expansion is already out, it is likely easier to just have them use Chakra and offer ways to get Chakra from the rotation such as using a Couerl move with 3 GL stacks up (as suggested by Grimoire-M).

For the Fist Stances, they would probably just work better as cooldowns or baked into other existing cooldowns / traits. Fist of Earth I have only used soloing and Fist of Wind when the boss has their "chicken intermission". It's a wonder these are still in game since Fists of Fire is the useful one "95%" of the time.

For Tornado Kick, I have only used it on enemies about to die from one hit. One way to buff it is to make it do a really heavy burst attack, but that might jack up some PvP matches. It should probably provide a self buff that speeds up the acquisition of GL stacks or reduce the cooldown of Perfect Balance based on how many stacks it "eats up".

For One Ilm Punch and Arms of the Destroyer, they definitely need a rework. The stun and silence is too short and needing a specific stance makes them unreliable anyhow. I am thinking they might as well be our AoE choices for Opopo and Raptor stance with a buff to around 70 - 100 potency to make them worth it for 4+ targets. To compensate, the stun and silence can be removed. This might even be the big chance to put in ideas like Flame Dance and Air Blade as replacements if time permits.

Honestly, just rework Riddles to be upgraded Fist Stances would work, just add a secondary effect to each fist stance on activation and you're already off to a better start than what MNK currently has, which is a whole lot of useless button.
Tackle Mastery is a crock and needs to either be removed or reworked so that it might actually be useful. Having it effect all our oGCDs might be a bit of a stretch but anything would be better than that joke of a trait.
Remove the timer on Forbidden Chakra, for the love of god. While you're at it, remove timers on form stances as well because stance dancing for hours before a pull is utterly annoying.
All the clutter skills we have (Tornado kick, One Ilm Punch, etc) need serious reworks. Either changing Tornado kick to use Chakra or even just removing the GL cost entirely for an increased CD time would make it salvageable as a skill. One Ilm Punch into the new Touch of Death, Arm of the Destroyer into an actually damaging AoE, Purification as an instant GL3 for 5 Chakras (which I feel would be fine given that Purification is currently just an inferior Invigorate in every possible way and that it offers nothing currently as MNK is now TP positive in all but the absolute extreme of AoE situations, of which are very few ATM.)

Arm of the Destroyer and One Ilm Punch has always been a bit iffy. What I find strange is that the two moves haven't been "fixed" by letting them along with Rockbreaker being the monk's AoE combo chain. I'd rather see the silence effect disappear from Arm in preference to a more solid AoE attack. Currently single target direct damage can be seen in the BS/TS/SP combo; buff placers to shift things in the monk's favour is found in the DK/TS/Demo combo. Arm/OIP/RB could (should?) have been our go-to AoE combo.

That being said, I haven't really found the 4.0 monk personal damage to be lacking. But as many has noted, the job now feels schizophrenic in how it feels to play it and to some extent what it's trying to do. I don't know if the items below solves everything, but just instinctively I'd make it so that:

- Arm/OIP/Demo serving as AoE damage combo (compare to SAM's Fuga combo, DRG Doom Spike combo). I do with this was the case. A proper AoE combo. Strip the actions of their silences and stuns, adjust potency so it doesn't get too crazy in damage output. But in the end, make the full 3x3 set of core monk weaponskills relevant and prevalent in regular play. Actually, rename One Ilm Punch to Tornado or Hurricane Kick if the name doesn't feel right. Ivon Coerlfist got a move like that. So could other monks.

- Riddle of Earth granting Earth's Reply (GL refresh) when taking damage as long as the RoE buff is active. Not just for the first instance. RoE should from the start grant an additional +X% mitigation instead of baking into the reply effect. In raid environments it'd give monk a decent personal mitigation tool. Maybe it can open up scenarios where monks are desirable for dealing with certain mechanics over other dps jobs as they can survive the blast by themselves. The +X% mitigation doesn't really matter in standard dungeon and overworld content. Monsters rarely if ever have moves that would justify leaving FoF.

- Riddle of Wind being the utility action. If utility is stripped from Arm/OIP but needs to go somewhere (since ninjas got innate silence and dragoons got innate stun), have the RoW work like Dark Arts and modify existing weaponskills or abilities to stun or silence. This RoW utility buff could have it's duration adjusted to make it more or less flexible in relation to when the stun or silence is needed. Personally, I have yet to get any use out of two charges of a weak variant of Shoulder Tackle in PvE content and I'd rather see RoW do something interesting. If it needs more impact, the silence and stun can be made to go through diminishing returns.

- Riddle of Fire should stop killing our haste from GL. It's not strange to think that a buff like RoF or B4B should have a cost associated with it. There should be a risk associated so that good decision making is rewarded. Personally, I'd make RoF be an inverse Embolden. You start at some bonus percentage and the bonus grows with time. The drawback is that if you take damage the growth stops. That way the monk gets a good bonus if the timing is right and a weak bonus if mistakes are made. Naturally I'm biased in favour of this RoF variant, but I'd be able to sail with most other variants that didn't mess with GL speed.

- Tackle Mastery is garbage. Remove it. It has no impact on gameplay decisions and the earth variant is basically an active detriment. I'd rather see the bonuses baked into other things.

AOTD could be a lower potency, lower cost AOE, designed for long AOE where TP could become an issue. At first you start with AOTD/twin or true strike / rockbreaker, and if TP become an issue you shift to Aotd/twi or true strike / Snap punch for lower damage lower cost AOE.

I don't think having three AOE moves would be a good thing on monk, it would just remove it's flavor, but a second aoe move on a different stance with different purpose would be interesting.

Originally Posted by Wollip

-Monk vs Ninja and Dragoon balance stuff-

For the most part Monk and whether or not it's viable/competitive with Dragoon Ninja isn't what's being discussed here, it's just the issue's Monks kit has (many of which date back to ARR mind you) and its play style in Stormblood overall.

Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

There's no point getting your hopes up, everything about this expansion says the devs don't care about Monk.

Found the cynic!