Thread: Monk ignored for 4.1

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

You're an all rounder. You do almost the highest damage, you bring good utility, you're almost the fastest. Contrary to HW you're actually not outright disdained and people use you. It sounds like all you're really mad at is RoF. Mnk is absolutely fine.....except tackle mastery and tornado kick, those are actual legitmate dead end mechanics(esp the former) that need a serious look at.

To md MNK isn't about being the fastest(really you haven't been the fastest since NIN was released so...stop making stuff up), it's always been about dealing massive damage with very weak attacks, and it still accomplishes that role. The only dps that rank higher than it are the meta. You could literally argue "what is __ there for?" about any dps that isn't NIN DRG MCH or BRD.

Besides they already stated they were not changing RoF nearly 3 months ago. Deal with it or change jobs back to WHM.

Most of this post is wrong.

Monk's identity has been going fast since 2.X. That was it's draw then, that's what people still want from it. The devs didn't say they weren't changing RoF either, they said they would change it if there was enough demand for it. Consider this and all the other posts asking for it to be removed as demand.

You're also massively understating the issues with Monk's kit. It's not Just Tackle Mastery and Tornado Kick, it's Purification, Arm of the Destroyer, Fists of Wind, Fists of Earth, Fists of Fire One Ilm Punch, Perfect Balance, Forbidden Chakra, Riddle of Earth, and Brotherhood.

Arm of the Destroyer is so massively weak that it requires a stupidly huge pull for it to be worth the massive TP cost to use. Purification is practically a moot point now that we have infinite TP even before Riddle of Fire's slowdown. Fists of Wind, Fists of Earth and Tackle Mastery all share the same stupid problem of false choice sinnce there's literally no reason to be out of Fists of Fire. The fact that the Earth and Wind tackles are both half baked at best hardly make any difference. One Ilm Punch's stun is a joke, so is Arm of the Destroyer's silence, there's no point trying to count on something so unbelievably reliable when a tank can take interject or you can take Leg Sweep (or even stall your shoulder tackle). Perfect Balance's cooldown is six times as long as Blood of the Dragon's and Enochian's, they can go through a phase change and come out the other end with their buff but Monk is almost always going to have to slow build back up and Riddle of Earth is the stupidest possible solution to that particular problem. Unlike Blood of the Dragon we can't just hit the button to extend it, no we have to get hit, so for quite a few phase changes we can just have our stacks fall off because we didn't have enough time on GL3 even with damn near 100% uptime on the boss if it takes it too long for the attack to go out (see: Ala Mhigo Final Boss, Shinryu, and Ruby of the Violet Tides Final Boss). And worse, in some cases we have to take the games equivalent of the slap on the wrist, a Vuln Stack, to do it. And don't get me started on Brotherhood, it's not a problem that it only buffs physical damage, frankly it just buffing physical damage, but the fact that it doesn't proc off spells makes Monk absurdly comp specific. Got more than one caster? Well you're out of luck, say goodbye to about 100 DPS. Are you doing a 4-man? If you've got a caster as your co-dps and a Dark Knight as a tank then congratulations, you've got nothing. If it's a Warrior tank and a cast, enjoy your measly 1-2 chakra. If you're somehow lucky enough to have a Warrior and another physical DPS then if RNG smiles upon you you might get enough chakra for 1 FC. Is there another Monk in an 8-man PUG? Well one of you is going to miss the party buff window or lose out on your Brotherhood because they overwrite eachother. RNG Hates you? Enjoy your brotherhood flubbing and giving you a whopping 2 chakras. RNG Likes you too much for a moment? Enjoy losing a bunch of Chakra to Forbidden Chakra's cooldown.

There's a lot of issues with Monk's kit my friend, and most of them have existed for way longer than Stormblood. That Monk is functional is in spite of them.

Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Is there another Monk in an 8-man PUG? Well one of you is going to miss the party buff window or lose out on your Brotherhood because they overwrite eachother.

This is my biggest gripe with MNK at the moment.

Before any of you other dumb DPS say "oh but Trick Attack doesn't stack! Battle litany doesn't stack! Foe's Requiem doesn't stack!" Those are raid cooldowns. You can use Battle Litany whenever. You can have one ninja use TA for his first ninjutsu, and the other use raiton or fuma. Then do TA on the second with no DPS loss. Brotherhood is, first and foremost, a monk personal DPS cooldown.

Imagine like, only 1 Black Mage being able to use Enochian, or 1 Dragoon able to use their Eyes (the other guy just loses theirs lol sucks for him). Or only one Bard being able to use any song at all. It's baffling.

People that don't get it always bring up the dps isssue....
Which is not what we're ask for.
We need useful ability to help us Evole but right now LV 66 traits is worse than Devolve.its completely useless.
Even Brotherhood,Deep mediation traits,Riddle of Fire,Tornado Kick are not actually help mnk evolves into the right direction-
But they're still have their uses in the right situation/circumstances.
NOT Tackle Mastery though,NO,it shouldn't exist in the 1st place.
It should be replace with more useful traits like ...for each Forbidden Chakra used,Perfect Balance,Brotherhood,ROF cooldown reduce by 5-10 seconds.

How was "most" of my post wrong? I mean maybe my issues statement but everything else was my opinion or a fact and neither of those can be wrong. I willl admit i didn't cover every issue of MNK and kinda condensed it....and forgot about one ilm punch admittedly(it's that useless!). The reason MNK isn't getting huge overhauls a la smn is because it's mostly fine. It isn't broken, it does good damage, people play it. It does actually have a few issues but none of them are very big. I was actually just gonna not respond bc it felt like too much work but after a few hours I decided to....I was a little visicous and unclear anyway x.x

Mnk hasn't really been the fastest since ninja was released. They get the exact same speed buff. Mnk being the gotta go fast whatever is a personal gripe and to me that isn't mnk.

Arm of the destroyer, is actually not bad. You'd use it on any dual pull or more. 50 potency per enemy essentially means you'd use it with 4 or more. The silence is useless though. Purification is for AoE. You use your chakra on that instead of FC so you can keep Aoeing.

All of the fist stances, I actually kinda meant to include them when I said Tackle Mastery, to me it was synonymous. They feel tacked on and mostly useless.

One Ilm punch having the unresisted stun isn't bad but it requiring you to be in a stance makes it useless, but a lot of classes share this trait of having useless skills so meh. That is not exclusive to mnk so...they have a lot of work to do really.

Perfect Balance is a tad long but at most I'd say make it 90 seconds. The ENTIRE point of MNK is to have a simple rotation that does a lot of damage. What makes it hard is trying to keep up GL. That IS your mechanic. The devs have made that very clear from the start with how they've done mnk skills regardless what you might think. So any complaint you have about keeping GL goes in one ear and out the other. However!! Long boss transitions are extremely annoying and unfair to the mnk, but a 90 second PB would fix that for nearly every fight.

Forbidden chakra could probably use a slight animation/CD reduction but i mean....that clearly isn't an issue for top dps mnks that rival SAM and BLM so it'd just end up a flat dps buff to get even more FCs in.

Earth's reply actually adds on to the whole attempt to keep GL, sorta. In a lot of cases you can keep GL if you time it right. Making it just refresh your GL would go against the difficulty of the job, sorta. But again long boss transitions with no damage are kinda unfair.

I do not believe MNK should be able to just reapply GL willy nilly like DRG. MNK's rotation is simple. DRG's isn't. That was unfair that in HW DRG had to not only try to keep up BOTD but they had a complex rng sprinkled rotation. So they made it simpler, now DRG only needs to really remember its rotation and spam its many ogcds. MNK only has to keep up GL, it doesn't have a complicated rotation or an excessive amount of ogcds.

Brotherhood. This is the rng mechanic. I wanna say 6(?) classes in this game have rng mechanics that make their dps skyrocket if they get lucky(esp in brd's case). Again not really unique to MNK. But MNKs rng mechanic will buff party dps regardless of if it actually gives you personal damage. And it only affects phys....well smn's debuff only affects magic so ...idk /shrug. I actually didn't know BH was overwritten by BH(maybe I shouldn't be talking then huh) but that is pretty stupid and feels like a huge oversight.

I personally don't really care about RoF, I like the idea of being a powerhouse for 20 seconds.I was rather unspecific when I just said TK and tackles were the issues but I consider those huge issues since it's like they added a bunch of nothing in SB and that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. And TK just got a reduced cd so players that don't know any better just use it at every gl3 >.>. I think MNK is better off than HW though. Yes it has issues but so do a lot of other classes, and mnks really arent that bad in comparison to some.

Except maybe BH not stacking. Srs SE?

Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

- Freeze GL's duration during Riddle of Earth.

Some good suggestions, but this change would be boring imo, since trying to find ways to keep the stacks up is part of the fun, despite being sometimes frustrating, if you can't find a way. Maybe, they could use riddle of wind to either reduce the cd of balance or to freeze the timer for a few seconds instead of an permanent freeze.

Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

Healers are fine? Guess sch is dps then.

What? Anyway not the topic to discuss this. But i'd like to know what your opinion about the class is in the healer sub forum.