~Poll~ Longer fights <Do you want it?>

[Rokien]

There's different formats to endgame. Raiding, boss fighting. And yeah, while every boss is different, the basis of the idea is the same.

Why should stuff be based off endgame? Endgame is not and should not be the main focus for any video game EVER!~ That's bad game design. Me, I like everything 100xs more that isn't endgame.

[Hyrist]

Actually, you're wrong, dead wrong.

Endgame is the focus of MMOs. It is the eventuality that everyone will level, they will be at max level. And if you do not have the proper sustinence to maintain players after you beat the game and your primary story is over, then you lose those players.

The way you would make the game in contrast would be SWTOR, and we've already witnessed the fruits of that approach. The lack of endgame murdered the base there. The story was great, the journey on the way up was properly paced and diverse, but the endgame was completely lacking.

You build an alternate EXP system that is built to simulate an endgame environment, and what you have is an engaging gameplay throughout, that accustoms the player to the pacing that will take over once the story is over. You feel familiar instead of feeling alienated by those of the 'hardcore' that rushed the level system, and you enjoy your course up.

You can have an interesting story and good feeling grind up, but ultimately it will be endgame and endgame goals that will sustain or lose you depending on how well it is designed. Creating content that prepares you for it is also creating content that will help make the journey up more fulfilling and enjoyable - without making content that ultimately lies dead and forgotten once the leveling scales tip towards the level cap - which is an eventuality.

[Rokien]

That's not what I said, but I'm not wrong, I'm right. Just as with buffs, this game has been favoring more potent but shorter duration effects. An enfeeble doesn't have to last a minute or two to have its effect. 15-20 seconds is plenty.

We're never going to see eye to eye here. You don't seem to understand. I'm not advocating for fights to be as short as humanly possible. I'm advocating for combat to be more polished- this means making combat better in its technical aspects, not saying "Fights must last at least X seconds or they are unfun." There is no set duration of time required to make a fight fun or interesting. <30 second fights can be fun, and >30 second fights can be unfun- How much fun a fight is does not necessarily depend on length. Period, end of story.

I feel like part of the reason you want an arbitrary minimum time for a fight is to slow down XPing- If they increased the average time a fight takes, I would demand more EXP per fight to compensate.

Endgame battles are already of reasonable length. Thus this really only concerns EXP grinding, and frankly, I'd rather my EXP grinding be over as quickly as possible, because that's not the part of the game I enjoy the most.

That's like saying if I like speed, why not play a racing game instead of a puzzle game? The answer is because it's the kind of game I like. Not every game in the same genre is the same. I hate tournament fighters. Your comment is probably one of the stupidest I've ever read in my life. Funny thing though, fighting games are an example of combat that is often fast yet intricate. But that alone doesn't make the game for me. I like the story, the epic bosses, the exploration, cooperating with others, etc. of MMOs- street fighter and mortal kombat don't have that. Grinding is the only thing I don't like.

As I've said before, making fights longer doesn't make them automatically more interesting. Good combat mechanics are what make a fight interesting. Forcing the fight to last a certain amount of time doesn't achieve that.

maaan, must really suck to be you. Every other rpg game I play consists of fights that are longer than 10 seconds. Heck even FPS have longer fights.

Also, not going to go back and quote other things but seems like your main focus of your argument is "I feel like part of the reason you want an arbitrary minimum time for a fight is to slow down XPing- If they increased the average time a fight takes, I would demand more EXP per fight to compensate."

As I stated and others have stated throughout this thread, exp would be adjusted. I said "The longer fights would have adjusted exp for em as well. So, the whole "Get less exp" argument is out of the window as well."

So don't even bring that up, EVER!

"An enfeeble doesn't have to last a minute or two to have its effect. 15-20 seconds is plenty."

What mob even lasts for 15-20 seconds, you sir are crazy. Any debuff(enfeeble) spells are pointless in this current build.

[Rokien]

Actually, you're wrong, dead wrong.

Endgame is the focus of MMOs. It is the eventuality that everyone will level, they will be at max level. And if you do not have the proper sustinence to maintain players after you beat the game and your primary story is over, then you lose those players.

The way you would make the game in contrast would be SWTOR, and we've already witnessed the fruits of that approach. The lack of endgame murdered the base there. The story was great, the journey on the way up was properly paced and diverse, but the endgame was completely lacking.

You build an alternate EXP system that is built to simulate an endgame environment, and what you have is an engaging gameplay throughout, that accustoms the player to the pacing that will take over once the story is over. You feel familiar instead of feeling alienated by those of the 'hardcore' that rushed the level system, and you enjoy your course up.

You can have an interesting story and good feeling grind up, but ultimately it will be endgame and endgame goals that will sustain or lose you depending on how well it is designed. Creating content that prepares you for it is also creating content that will help make the journey up more fulfilling and enjoyable - without making content that ultimately lies dead and forgotten once the leveling scales tip towards the level cap - which is an eventuality.

Ya, look how every other mmo is turning out. BAD.

I played ffxi for 9 years and hardly did any end game.

[Hyrist]

maaan, must really suck to be you. Every other rpg game I play consists of fights that are longer than 10 seconds. Heck even FPS have longer fights.

Yet it only takes one good bullet to the head in an FPS to kill someone.

I think you're misunderstanding the concept here. The idea is that fodder mobs should remain fodder mobs. That means SOME monsters should be dead inside 10 seconds. Not all of them, which is the problem the game is really suffering. Your policy is the opposite extreme to the problem, which you are saying "NO" monsters should be dead inside 10 seconds, which would cause the same problem on the opposite vien.

There should be balance between weaker and stronger monsters. The end result is longer fights, sure, but the emphasis is that the fights have more depth to them rather than just being harder for the sake of higher HP pools across the board.

Roiken, you suffer from not having any depth in your conversation. You will flood the boards with haphazard ideas without substance and therefore even if the intended meaning you convey is one that's agreeable, because you leave yourself so ambiguous, people disagree with your expression, and that becomes the focus of the conversation, rather than the goal.

As a word of advice, really sit down and take the time to think your complaints and ideas through before you express them. I'm not sure you understand that your meaning isn't getting across and you become so focused on the way you say things that you become inflexible in how to achieve your goals, and the same goes for the opponents of your threads.

[Rokien]

Yet it only takes one good bullet to the head in an FPS to kill someone.

I think you're misunderstanding the concept here. The idea is that fodder mobs should remain fodder mobs. That means SOME monsters should be dead inside 10 seconds. Not all of them, which is the problem the game is really suffering. Your policy is the opposite extreme to the problem, which you are saying "NO" monsters should be dead inside 10 seconds, which would cause the same problem on the opposite vien.

There should be balance between weaker and stronger monsters. The end result is longer fights, sure, but the emphasis is that the fights have more depth to them rather than just being harder for the sake of higher HP pools across the board.

Roiken, you suffer from not having any depth in your conversation. You will flood the boards with haphazard ideas without substance and therefore even if the intended meaning you convey is one that's agreeable, because you leave yourself so ambiguous, people disagree with your expression, and that becomes the focus of the conversation, rather than the goal.

As a word of advice, really sit down and take the time to think your complaints and ideas through before you express them. I'm not sure you understand that your meaning isn't getting across and you become so focused on the way you say things that you become inflexible in how to achieve your goals, and the same goes for the opponents of your threads.

Weaker mob takes a few minutes to kill, stronger mob takes 20 mins to kill, I still don't see the point you are trying to make. Ya, mobs should take a few seconds to kill when they are level 1~

Also babe, people agree with me all the time.

Just look how many people are not agreeing with you. LOL

[Hyrist]

Ya, look how every other mmo is turning out. BAD.

I played ffxi for 9 years and hardly did any end game.

If you touched Besiged, you touched endgame.

If you did any of the Avatar fights, you touched endgame, believe it or not.

Any Assaults at all, you touched endgame.

FFXI was riddled with endgame that was hidden under the guise of something else. But more importantly, FFXI had a badly designed endgame. I played FFXI as long as you do, and I too 'hardly touched endgame' but guess what? We were a vast minority, and a lot of the content we did enjoy repeatedly, was very endgame orientated. Beseiged and Campaign were active variants of Dynamis without sleep control. Storyline Boss fights were very similar in comparison to their endgame and __NM counterparts.

But the majority of the players in the game? Sustained by endgame. The markets the fields the playing. You stuck around because you enjoyed the timesink element, which was an element the majority was complaining about continually (and if you pay attention, they still are complaining about it.)

You cant use FFXI as a template for a sucessful MMO anymore, even that template had to change with time, and all these MMO's that you say are failing, they failed because most of them lacked the substantial endgame experience the players were looking for. Most the endgame players have experienced in MMOs these days has been little more than grind an fluff. Even our Ifrit and Garuda fights have been far more entertaining and challenging than some of these high end encounters other MMOs have been pushing through.

That's not to say neglect other content, Roiken, you mistake me. The concept is that Endgame becomes the sustaining element in the game for those who've already leveled. Things like Campaign, Besieged, all those lovely little distractions, they're actually a part of 'end game'. They are a part of the things you do after the leveling is over. If anything, FFXIV can use more of that system.

It doesn't have to be hardcore, but it dose have to exist, and substantially.

[Hyrist]

Weaker mob takes a few minutes to kill, stronger mob takes 20 mins to kill, I still don't see the point you are trying to make. Ya, mobs should take a few seconds to kill when they are level 1~

Also babe, people agree with me all the time.

Just look how many people are not agreeing with you. LOL

Don't call me babe. I'm older than you and way out of your league.

I'm also male.

And people disagree with me all the time because I play the devil's advocate all the time. Disagreeing with people is intentional as it tests the integrity of their argument.

Something you lack, by the way.

20 minutes is a Boss Fight. 1 Minute is an Encounter. An encounter can range between one moderately tough monster to several fodder mobs that each die in 10 seconds or any variance in-between.

Point being, even some level 50 monsters should die in short order.

[Starlord]

Also babe, people agree with me all the time.

Agree? there are times like this thread in which alot of people agree with this idea.

The other 99% of your Threads= :/ why?

and the Phrase "All the time", nobody agrees with anyone 100% of the time...

Except Maybe Reinheart, because he likes Subligars!

[Hyrist]

Except Maybe Reinheart, because he likes Subligars!

Who doesn't like subligars?

Seriously, those who hate subligars, aren't seeing them being worn by the right person.