~Poll~ Longer fights <Do you want it?>

[Jocko]

As of right now, pure DPS is all that matters. With the current system, debuffs as well as tactics such as positioning, stunning to prevent WS's from going off, kiting, anything in general really are made completely useless. That not only makes combat feel dull, but also harms the creativity and viability of interesting class types. Classes like Green Mage would completely flounder. Longer, more varied battles would alleviate those issues.

[Duelle]

As of right now, pure DPS is all that matters. With the current system, debuffs as well as tactics such as positioning, stunning to prevent WS's from going off, kiting, anything in general really are made completely useless. That not only makes combat feel dull, but also harms the creativity and viability of interesting class types.

Stuns would have to be on lower cooldowns, or introduce interrupts and give them the lower cooldowns so that the stuns can then be used for crowd control instead.

Debuffing has to get away from the asinine design of FFXI, and that requires re-imagining a whole bunch of the spells. Paralyze preventing actions on proc is OP'd. Silence preventing spell casting is OP'd. Amnesia as we knew it in XI was OP'd from a player character perspective (hence why players never got access to it). I would even venture and say we should shift towards group buffs provided by different classes (both War and Magic disciplines), and perhaps design debuff potency so that in a 24-man raid the debuffs stack up to a certain point to avoid overlap. Something like DRK using Riot Blade to reduce defense, then RDM using Dia to lower defense even further, and both effects stacking. Say you don't have a DRK but have a DNC instead in that DPS slot; then you can have them use Box step to help your group reach that Defense Down cap on a boss level mob.

Classes like Green Mage would completely flounder. Longer, more varied battles would alleviate those issues.

I disagree. Green Mage would suffer if it was limited solely to buffs and debuffs. It would have to be (IMO) designed as a HoT-focused healer to enter the healer roster alongside WHM, with some buffs to help the group out (+Attack, +Spell Power).

[Jocko]

Debuffing has to get away from the asinine design of FFXI, and that requires re-imagining a whole bunch of the spells. Paralyze preventing actions on proc is OP'd. Silence preventing spell casting is OP'd. Amnesia as we knew it in XI was OP'd from a player character perspective (hence why players never got access to it).

Paralyze does not have to prevent actions on proc, rather, giving each action a chance to be interrupted on use seems perfectly reasonable [Edit: I just realized how dumb what I said was ]. Preventing spell casting isn't OP at all, really. Not every mob has to be susceptible to every debuff, and those that are can have differing amounts of resistance. Bringing a class with silence to a boss that is somewhat susceptible is a valid strategy, sacrificing potential dps for potential utility. Another example, if mobs could be grouped (Much like they are in traditional FF titles), debuffs like silence could be used to CC certain mobs while others are taken out first, having a class' playstyle revolve around keeping specific mobs locked down.

Say you don't have a DRK but have a DNC instead in that DPS slot; then you can have them use Box step to help your group reach that Defense Down cap on a boss level mob.

To me, that sounds like the homogenization of classes that we're trying to avoid. Not every class needs to be good (Or even viable) at every facet of the game. Having classes excel in particular areas creates class uniqueness and elements of strategy with class formation. You can argue that people disliked being locked out of content due to elitism in XI, but XIV is designed around having multiple capped jobs fairly quickly, so I don't find that an issue. An area where debuffs shine, and an area where they don't. Bring a Green Mage to one, and something else to the other. I don't see a problem with this.

It would have to be (IMO) designed as a HoT-focused healer to enter the healer roster alongside WHM, with some buffs to help the group out (+Attack, +Spell Power).

Then it's not a Green Mage

[SuzakuCMX]

Then it's not a Green Mage

Green Mage is pretty much impossible to implement since WHM and BRD have all the buffs and BLM has all the debuffs and crowd control.

[Jocko]

Green Mage is pretty much impossible to implement since WHM and BRD have all the buffs and BLM has all the debuffs and crowd control.

Blind, Oil, Silence, Poison, Confuse, Disable, Zombie, Mini, Frog, Petrify

Float, Berserk, Invis, Astra

And of course, mace weapon skills focused on crippling foes. There's plenty of stuff to work with when making a Green Mage

[Duelle]

Paralyze does not have to prevent actions on proc, rather, giving each action a chance to be interrupted on use seems perfectly reasonable.

I'd be more for it giving the mob penalties to attack and accuracy.

Preventing spell casting isn't OP at all, really. Not every mob has to be susceptible to every debuff, and those that are can have differing amounts of resistance. Bringing a class with silence to a boss that is somewhat susceptible is a valid strategy, sacrificing potential dps for potential utility.

While creating a niche that makes that class required. That's something we should try to avoid so that you can have several group comps that are capable of doing the content. I'd rather have the melee DPS organize themselves into an interrupts rotation or something along those lines.

Another example, if mobs could be grouped (Much like they are in traditional FF titles), debuffs like silence could be used to CC certain mobs while others are taken out first, having a class' playstyle revolve around keeping specific mobs locked down.

Sleep, Bind, Toad can be used as CC. Sleep and Toad could break on damage while Bind could have a damage threshold before it wears off.

To me, that sounds like the homogenization of classes that we're trying to avoid. Not every class needs to be good (Or even viable) at every facet of the game. Having classes excel in particular areas creates class uniqueness and elements of strategy with class formation. You can argue that people disliked being locked out of content due to elitism in XI, but XIV is designed around having multiple capped jobs fairly quickly, so I don't find that an issue.

It's still an issue because if I want to come to a dungeon as a Dragoon, then I should be able to come as a Dragoon without being a hinderance to the group. If my prayers are answered and Red Mage is designed around front line combat+magic in this game (check my sig for the link), then you can damn well expect to see me to show up to everything as Red Mage.

We're way past the point where you can force people to level jobs they want nothing to do with, armoury system or no. Niche gameplay sucks and we should avoid recreating the party dynamics of FFXI.

Then it's not a Green Mage

One-trick ponies no longer cut it in MMOs. Something has to give. Geomancer was recently re-imagined as a debuff/buffbot despite being the guy that could equip a big axe and had free elemental spells. I don't see why Green Mage couldn't be re-imagined into something more fitting for an MMO.