Please remove the EXP from PVP!

[Commander_Justitia]

I like how the creator of this thread has all classes on 70 though. Only because YOU don't need exp anymore, doesn't have to mean removing it is the favorable way to fix PvP.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Honestly, it has to be said that when there was no XP offered, we didn't have anywhere near as many issues with botting or people just making half-hearted efforts "'cause I get XP either way." PvP functioned as a solid, if not undersupported and unrecognized endgame activity.

Because I understand the desire to allow players in as early as 30 - and with plans to make it possible from even 1 - it might do well to split the queues. Have a leveling queue and an endgame queue. There ARE people that PvP for reasons other than leveling, and enjoy it for more than a substitute for other content that gives more XP anyways. But I can't stress enough, we didn't have half these problems back then, and the overall quality of sportsmanship, let alone competitive spirit was MUCH higher.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

It happens just as you say, unfortunately:

People get the idea that X GC always wins > players switch to that GC, and choke up queues (unless bots now fill the spots on other teams) > botters eventually switch to the "winning" GC, or players that perform well switch out > cycle repeats.

This happened even before botting was an issue. I agree that a more stringent approach is needed. You can't "revive" PvP by overhauling it, then just leave it to exploiters to get what they want. The community - the dedicated community that was already there - was simply too small to allow these kinds of issues that weren't originally present, and is now only shrinking even further as a result of many factors.

[Gravton]

Remove queuing as a grand company and force freelancer.

After doing frontlines today I'm all for removing xp. It was meant as an incentive to get players interested in pvp. Now pve-ers abuse it just to level. They have no interest in pvp. Today people in alliance chat were complaining about bots then other players started attacking them. Saying "Who cares!?" "I don't care about pvp." "I'm just here to lvl, I'd bot too if I could." If they want to separate pvp from pve then they should remove pve xp from pvp. If you are only there to lvl, then I don't care if you stop queuing.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The fact that they feel entitled to show up and just put in half effort (if at all) for XP is truly infuriating. Now if say, a regular PvPer shows up to say, Return to Ivalice and proceeds to do whatever they want and replies with "Who cares!? I'm just here for free gear! I don't care about PvE!" that would be absolutely intolerable wouldn't it? It'd even be easy grounds for a warming or temp ban depending on the severity.

So tell me, SE, why does it seem perfectly okay that this happens? Did you consider that this might happen? More importantly, might there be some way to try and approach this without penalizing everyone altogether?

More questions to maybe answer along with the other ones. It's day 7 BTW. . .

[Geryth]

I am 100% using PvP to level other jobs right now. But I have an affinity for PvP and I contribute well to the team. If PvP didn't give experience then I wouldn't have the desire to try out other jobs like MCH, BLM, AST, or WHM. I power-leveled WHM and BLM to 30 for this purpose where I otherwise would not have.

Adding experience to PvP gives me options and a reason to PvP on other jobs. Now I can swap to healer if we need one, or ranged dps, etc.

I think everyone benefits greatly from me being able to drop bombs on BLM or swap to WHM when needed, instead of piddling around and sniping killing blows on my Dragoon. You can thank experience in PvP for that.

[Gravton]

You see? That's just sad. You are not sad for doing it. It's sad that the pve xp is the only reason players are doing pvp. Not because pvp is fun and engaging but so they can get free xp for pve. You are a better player than most, at least you try, but the mentality is the same. What's makes it even more annoying is that you see the same players that are against jump potions, bot in pvp.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

It seems we can also thank it for:

Farmers
Botters
People who generally just don't care for the content beyond a quick stop for whatever they want
Even less knowledgeable newer players, who now have no intent to learn (see above item)
People quick to give up if victory isn't guaranteed (Hint: It never was)

There's nothing wrong with the raw concept of allowing players to level through PvP, but we clearly have people with no desire to actually PvP because they like it, exploiting it for their own selfish gain, and too many others bear the brunt of that. I actually LIKE the idea of PvP offering XP, but if it comes with these kinds of detriments, something's got to give, and as someone who enjoyed it when leveling in order to PvP was my own concern to work out, I can be fine with letting it go for the greater good.

[Gravton]

I like the xp idea too! That's why it sucks to say it. I use bard in pvp, not because it's lvl 40 something and I want it to 70. That brd will never see gear or content. I pvp with brd cause it's op and fun, gaining xp is just a bonus.

[Geryth]

It seems we can also thank it for:

Farmers
Botters
People who generally just don't care for the content beyond a quick stop for whatever they want
Even less knowledgeable newer players, who now have no intent to learn (see above item)
People quick to give up if victory isn't guaranteed (Hint: It never was)

There's nothing wrong with the raw concept of allowing players to level through PvP, but we clearly have people with no desire to actually PvP because they like it, exploiting it for their own selfish gain, and too many others bear the brunt of that. I actually LIKE the idea of PvP offering XP, but if it comes with these kinds of detriments, something's got to give, and as someone who enjoyed it when leveling in order to PvP was my own concern to work out, I can be fine with letting it go for the greater good.

Give and take I suppose. I've been 95% PvP'ing since I resubbed to this game about 2 months ago. That's because PvP now offers experience. If it didn't, I probably wouldn't have touched PvP at all. I'm enjoying the XP as a side benefit - my goal is to grab some mounts and titles. I might stick around in feast to give my hand a try at ranked next season, or maybe to get some of those 5,000 win titles.

Experience in PvP draws in players. It draws in bad players (and botters/cheaters), and it draws in good players. I guess it depends on whether or not the net change is for better or worse, but that's really hard to quantify. It's easy to see the damage as everyone has pointed out, but it's not as easy to see what new players have joined in PvP and been positive contributors to the games and community. I've been having a blast - probably more fun than if I had only been doing PvE. Adding experience to PvP not only attracted me to the mode, but directly increased my overall enjoyment of this game by doing so. I know that's anecdotal, but it's something to consider.