Mechanics to add variety to dungeon mobs

[Musashidon]

all this will do is stop people from doing dungeons.

unique mechanics are nice and all, but once its worn off (aka after the first run) it's annoying and i will just pvp for my seals since dungeons will take longer/more wipes because of players who don't care.

the other thing to remember any monster that is going to ignore the tank is going to do basically no damage or their attacks will all be dodge able aoes meaning the mechanic is lost/ignored because if they did any real damage it would be wipe city, that's why the random target bosses are weak/dodgable.

[Airget]

all this will do is stop people from doing dungeons.

Ya, in reality Dungeons should be renamed "Adventures" since that's what they are. They are story-driven adventures that always go down the same path. Now if they were to release actual dungeons with different paths and focus on keeping players on their toes, the above could work. Sadly these adventures are designed to help players gear up, nothing more. When they design the Adventures they do it with 20-30 min completion time in mind, since they can't break that mold the dungeons have to remain stagnant in design with limited to no RNG.

[VargasVermillion]

I don't have much to contribute but i always thought garlean enemies should have a 'leader of the pack' style system when a centurion is around, as they have little functions aside from being damage sponges compared to the other garlean enemies.

[kikix12]

all this will do is stop people from doing dungeons.

I disagree. It would stop some people from doing dungeons, but those people are usually the ones you don't really want in your party in the first place. The lazy sort that doesn't want to care about what the heck is happening, cause they are doing something else and want to just spam few buttons while doing so.

unique mechanics are nice and all, but once its worn off (aka after the first run) it's annoying and i will just pvp for my seals since dungeons will take longer/more wipes because of players who don't care.

Players will start to care if these and similar would become something regular. And it not being "fresh" on second and latter runs doesn't change the fact that it can still be fun.

Using your argument that once you do it, it's not something you care to do anymore, I don't know why you're still playing. Anything at all. Everything that happens in any game is something you have been doing at some point in some game. What's new?! Story...maybe...So yeah, maybe it's worth playing until the part where you're saving the world all the same. In this game in particular, once you do the first two or three dungeons, there's nothing new. Just different graphics slapped on top. Every fodder fight is the same, like..literally. From a ranged persons perspective, there's only two possibilities to consider, and maybe 90% if not more belong to one of them. The mobs have long-range AoE (like those Magitek Colossus do) which may end up aimed at where you are...or they don't. If they don't, you do the exact same thing and wouldn't even notice being in a different dungeon. Healers at least need to react to the tanks health dropping.
PvP is actually the same. Once you play the map once, there's nothing fresh in it at all.

But do you know what's making it a bit more interesting?! Variety. Even if you repeat the same actions over and over again, so long as there are MORE actions that are repeated, it takes longer to get bored of them. These are supposed to do just that. Prevent every fight from being the same. If 10% of fodder would play like this, 10% like that, 10% yet differently and so on...the dungeons would actually take longer to get bored of. As a healer, the most interesting part of healing on fodders to me is the changing of targets from tank to mobs and from mobs to tank. Seriously, I'm not joking. Cause it makes me do something more than just push a few buttons over and over. There's some actual thinking added, too.

These don't have to make dungeon more difficult. By properly controlling the mobs stats, they would be quite easy to deal with, without any detriment to the length of dungeons. Ultimately, if there's the same amount of "HP" to take down and the same amount of "length" to walk, the time it will take will be roughly the same as well. These would just add some necessity to placing though into spreading the damage differently when making dungeons, cause some of these mobs simply could not be killed as a group. That's the point of their design, after all. Not hard to compensate for at all, though.

the other thing to remember any monster that is going to ignore the tank is going to do basically no damage or their attacks will all be dodge able aoes meaning the mechanic is lost/ignored because if they did any real damage it would be wipe city, that's why the random target bosses are weak/dodgable.

What a lazy answer. If mobs can be balanced around the tank getting whacked left and right and prove some challenge (without making it too hard), the same can be done with mobs that go after other party members. Sure, at high enough gear, they will become noticeably weaker in comparison, but that's why tanks make multiple pulls in the first place, and that would mean that on healers/DPS there would potentially be multiple mobs as well.

Not all random attacks are weak. The golem in temple of quarn is entirely random, and he really CAN hit. I mean, bad. And his stunning punch, dealing high damage, is also undodgeable, possibly opening the person for a death on next hit, if he will follow it up with a high-range AoE with the person being cornered. Happened in parties I was in. There's just nothing that can be done about that.

Large part of the reason why the random attacks are mostly irrelevant is because they are not followed up. The healer have all the time in the world to recover from them. But if there was a mob constantly of the healer, that would be a non-issue. It would need to be killed, unless the mobs die fast enough while the tank can be healed easily even with a random instant cast here or there to make the healer kiting the mob enough. Then again, that's already different too. Good enough in its own way.

[Arrius]

Large part of the reason why the random attacks are mostly irrelevant is because they are not followed up. The healer have all the time in the world to recover from them. But if there was a mob constantly of the healer, that would be a non-issue. It would need to be killed, unless the mobs die fast enough while the tank can be healed easily even with a random instant cast here or there to make the healer kiting the mob enough. Then again, that's already different too. Good enough in its own way.

Trash groups should remain trash, with some minor abilities too keep things interesting. Sure, you can add the occasionaly spongy, hard hitting dude inbetween (like the colossi and vanguard in doma), but anything more than that and people will take issue with it.
I don't need another level of problems like Biasts from the Aery or Sordets from Neverreap with their neverending cone/aoe attacks, which forces me to dodge them every second.
Dodging means distraction, distractions means DPS loss. And that is always a hazzle.

The dungeons need to be grindable for future content (relics, roulettes) or else we face another disaster like the Steps of Fate.

[kikix12]

I don't need another level of problems like Biasts from the Aery or Sordets from Neverreap with their neverending cone/aoe attacks, which forces me to dodge them every second.
Dodging means distraction, distractions means DPS loss. And that is always a hazzle.

The only part where I mentioned a lot of AoE's is to prevent a healer from dragging in a mob that focuses on healing to the remainder of the pull, to make the DPS mindlessly throwing out AoE's a viable option. And if you think that's something you would need to avoid, then I think you did not read carefully.

The AoE's in question would be irrelevant to melee fighters (except Red Mage going into melee, or the situation where Dark Knight wants to cast Unleash). As a melee, you hardly (if at all) care about getting silenced or having your MP emptied. A healer, on the other hand, very much does care. None of the casters have much of a reason to approach the group though if that's the case. And having every pull be like that is not going to change much of anything either. Dungeons need variety, not more of the same...just a bit different kind than before.


I am not suggesting anything that would make the dungeons harder. I am suggesting something that would make them different. Not something that would require players to try and form complicated strategies. Something that would make players follow the plain obvious path, that is different from the norm. No one have any problem with healers or DPS classes having to do more than just spam their buttons all the time in mostly any other MMO I played. Why the heck is this suddenly a problem here?! The only reason why so many people don't give much of a damn in the average content is because they don't NEED to. They will STILL be able to clear it. Make very simple changes that will force a change in playstyle, without being complicated themselves, and people will easily adapt.

You complain about the dungeons being a chore, yet you want them to stay being a chore. Where's the logic in that?! Repetitiveness is a chore. It is a psychological trait natural to all humans that is considered a detrimental work condition. Governements, psychologists and work safety regulation groups all agree that wherever possible, even small changes to the repetitive nature of the jobs can have significant impact of the safety, efficiency and acceptability of the job. And you want the repetitiveness, that so many people want to combat...to stay?! Yeah, I don't understand you one bit.

This just sounds like another version of those ideas to stop big pulls. There's nothing interesting about "focus Wolf Leader or wipe", which is what they all sound like. No thanks.

So you prefer an artificial wall every other pull that you cannot pass at all, even when being 20+ levels above the dungeon in an unsynced run?!...Okey...No wonder the games are so overly simplified nowadays if those are peoples expectations.

[Arrius]

The AoE's in question would be irrelevant to melee fighters...

Aaand, that's where you lost me. If you don't even understand which monsters I am refering to and what they do, then don't bother bringing up these statements.
With that, you discredited yourself and those fancy words are nothing more than just mucked up nonsense for me.

[kikix12]

Aaand, that's where you lost me. If you don't even understand which monsters I am refering to and what they do, then bother bringing up these statements.
With that, you discredited yourself and those fancy words are just mucked up nonsense for me.

Huh?! I know what you meant by Biasts in Aery and what not, but this is not about Aery. How is that relevant to this discussion?! I assumed you used it as an example to counter my suggestion of implementing the healer hunters, because that's the only part of my post where that is relevant.

You don't even bring any argument to the table to begin with. You talked about not wanting to have more AoE's to dodge, while there is zero in this thread, other than from what you said, that would make you dodge any AoE's. So I think you need to start reading carefully, and you'll notice that there is some actual sense in what I wrote.

[Leigaon]

This is a great start towards something that could make dungeons more fun / shorter and teach people a thing or two the hard way..

Like someone said though, it would require an overhaul of the dungeons. Which I think we're really past due for a QoL adjustment. Just adjusting the # of mobs, increasing the XP and shortening the paths mixed with this would bring things up a bit.

I'm taking this as a rough draft, though others here see it as its final documentation. This is an idea to expand on.

Taking this idea and putting it in say Sastasha. A lot of the trash mobs up to the first boss can be removed and placed in with something else. Stick with the groups of two and add in one odd-ball to the side. Get them use to Pack members and calling in an occasional 3rd mob.

Thinking of it later, to have a mob turn and attack with a random attack to a player would make you want to use Cover, or low blow or the DPS can stun lock the guy.

[ApprenticeSmithy]

I like these ideas! They'd certainly add new flavour to dungeons. I really like the leader of pack idea. I think that could work great if implemented right!

Throwing in some random ideas here, but maybe have enemies with certain auras emanating from them, like a ice sprite causing frostbite to players around it, or malboros causing poison (they do stink after all XD)