4.1 and us tanks

[Lyth]

From a DRK perspective:

TBN:
This skill should be a consistent dps gain when the shield breaks. It should reimburse both the cost and give 50 blood. Then change it to its PvP description (i.e. 20% for self or target party member, so that your teammate shield will only break under a substantial attack. This isn't something that should be haphazardly spammed in the hope that it breaks on a random auto. The counterattacks should be your reward for knowing all of the cleave timings.

Bloodspiller:
DRK offers the least in the way of personal burst. If so, we should offer more consistent dps on average. (This still works out to be harder than playing a burst-focused class in the long run, because any loss in uptime is costly, rather than just during your burst window).

If Bloodspiller is to hit less hard, then it should at least hit as often (if not more frequently) as equivalents on other tanks. This could be done by increasing the blood gain on Souleater to 20, as it is in PvP. Speaking of Souleater and PvP, the life-steal should apply in Grit, as it does there.

oGCDs:
In 3.x, DA usage on oGCDs was built around the fact that you could apply DA on an earlier combo action and apply it on a later oGCD. Now that DA procs off of most GCD actions, it forces an unnecessary double weave. The cost should be built into the ability. Likewise, DP needs to be reworked so that it sees more use. Just make the DA effect baseline.

In the long-term, I would like to see C+S cost blood and return MP, and DP cost MP and return blood, but I'm not sure if that will be feasible in this expansion, given the timing of when we learn certain skills.

Also, if this tier has taught us anything, Plunge should be 20y, like every other gap closer.

Blood Weapon/Price:
At a 40 second recast, BW doesn't have good synergy with raid buffs. It should be 30 seconds, and be usable in Grit. Blood Price is useless in single target and a bit overpowered in AoE, and should either be re-tuned or re-purposed.

Defensive Cooldowns:
The easiest way to solve DRK's defensive issues is to shorten the recasts on both Shadow Wall and Living Dead, probably by a minute each to bring it in line with WAR. They could and probably should increase the recast on Dark Mind if they do this (or rework the skill entirely).

Sole Survivor probably could do with a rework as well. It's a very niche skill with limited use. It should be a HP/MP leech effect while active.

Grit Activation:
In the interviews leading up to SB, the devs pointed out that one of the main sources of imbalance in HW was the flexibility with which WAR can stance dance compared to the other two tanks, which is why gauge costs were implemented at the start of SB. This was universally disliked. If we can agree that tank stance activation costs are awful, then no tank should have them, period.

In particular, there is no reason why Grit or Darkside should have MP costs. There is a GCD penalty in place already. Having the double penalty on DRK is silly. In fact, the MP cost no longer exists in PvP.

Summary
TBN: Creates a barrier around self or other party member that absorbs damage totaling 20% of your maximum HP. Increases Blood Gauge by 50 and restores MP cost when full 20% is absorbed.

Souleater: Increases blood gauge by 20 and restores HP outside of Grit (50% absorbed).

Bloodspiller: Restores own MP (1200 MP).

Carve and Spit: 450 potency at baseline, costs 2400 MP (DA cost is baseline).

Dark Passenger: 240 potency/mob at baseline, costs 2400 MP.

Plunge: Increase range to 20y. Increased enmity generation.

Blood Weapon: Reduce recast to 30s. Make blood weapon usable in Grit.

Shadow Wall: Reduce recast to 120s.

Living Dead: Reduce recast to 180s.

Sole Survivor: Absorbs HP/MP over time while active.

Grit and Darkside: Remove MP activation cost.

Increase the MP pool, to allow more room to float your resources.

A number of these changes already exist in PvP. Just port them over, and they'll work wonders to the class.

[shao32]

snip.

you know how TBN works? Its a 5 seconds shield, you can only make it useful for others on tank busters and cast raid aoes, and the chances of someone need It in just a normal party are minimal on non tanks.
WAR have much more utility in real combat thanks to the shorts CDs and storm eye, they dont have any chance to be Out, the point its have all tanks being viable not make one mandatory for speedruns, bigger dps gaps betwen tanks bring more problems that solutions and thats a proof from heavensward.

[Phoenicia]

*Slashing Resistance Down Things*

RDM has nothing to do with Slashing. Its enchanted melee combo is magic, non-enchanted along with the oGCDs are Physical Pierce.

Even if SAM and NIN are present there are a few interesting facts (and benefits) about this slashing debuff:

1- WAR accesses it on second GCD whereas SAM applies it for the first time a bit late depending on which opener they use. i.e. on about the 9th GCD in 1 Sen Hagakure openers. NIN applies on 3rd GCD regardless. It does not matter THAT much since it's only at the beginning of each fight or after boss invulnerability periods.


2- The order is: SAM, WAR, NIN SAM's debuff overwrites WAR's but is longer. NIN's debuff is overwritten by WAR's because it's shorter. I believe 30 > 24 > 21 for SAM, WAR and NIN respectively.

3- This really follows the above points but deserves to be its own since it is a bit detailed:

In the natural DPS rotation, WAR applies Maim every combo from their second hit. Even if you need to build enmity, Butcher's Block doesn't need to be used more than once every Storm's Eye duration. This benefits the slashing DPS jobs in an interesting way.

SAM wants to cycle different combos for Sen. When SAM wants to apply Higanbana (the DoT) it needs 1 Sen. If you know the other person will reapply it before it falls off, SAM can rearrange its combos for a choice of extending a buff early or using the faster Sen from the 2 step combo Yukikaze.

With either of the other two present, NIN can allow its slashing debuff to fall off for just under 2 seconds to allow a full Shadow Fang DoT instead of clipping it early to ensure slashing debuff doesn't fall off. This may also add another Aeolian Edge combo.

DISCLAIMER: Take this with a grain of salt as I do not main SAM nor NIN but I play them on and off on an alt character. The info above is what I picked up from other NIN/SAM players and may not necessarily be adequate DPS gains. If so I stand corrected and would not mind being told the correct way.

[winsock]

I am really enjoying the stormblood pld, so much so that I have been maining it since SB release (switched from WHM).

My only complaint about pld right now is that clemency feels a bit too powerful for a ffxiv tank role given the way healing works in this game.

I'd be down for nerfing clemency burst. Maybe making it an oGCD HoT or something

[RLofOBFL]

Making it an ogcd AND a HoT would actually be a giant buff to PLD so ...I'm down for it xD

Nothing is worse than losing a gcd to clemency, I avoid it at all costs except when I progged savage. Tho I may still bust out 1 in o3 or o4 if someone is about to die and the healers are aoeing.

[Soraki-Muppe]

Beside seeing how they will mess up the Shake it of change, I am also curious to see which tank job they manage to fuck over this time.

[Schrute]

WAR:
Shake it off >> mini infuriate OR anything else really
Unchained and inner release no longer share same CD timer
Mini potency buffs

PLD:
SOLID CLASS

DRK:
Give more raid utitility
Blood weapon now use in grit
Grit no longer cost mp, Put grit on GCD

[Hruodig]

WAR:
Shake it off >> mini infuriate OR anything else really
Unchained and inner release no longer share same CD timer
Mini potency buffs

I really don't think war needs potency buffs, unless we wanna push drk further out of the meta. I'd be completely fine with the first two.

[Claire_Pendragon]

WAR:
Shake it off >> mini infuriate OR anything else really
Unchained and inner release no longer share same CD timer

This sounds like it would break WAR a bit.

Mini potency buffs

ok this definitely breaks WAR

PLD:
SOLID CLASS

pretty much true, unless u buff the others too much, like WAR DPS, then PLD needs updated to compensate.

DRK:
Give more raid utitility

while not completely unreasonable of a request, you need to be careful, otherwise u'll make DRK too good.

Blood weapon now use in grit

too OP

Grit no longer cost mp, Put grit on GCD

its already on the GCD...

Dark Side needs to have its MP activation cost removed imo (like in HW), as it was something you could do when the boss jumps away to get a small bit of MP back, rather than just sit there, with it still on.
(plus something liek foresight, with a 20s or so bit of mitigation, to help with Lv60-69 when u need more minor mitigation)

WAR is in more need of utility than DRK is, but ironically, if u do give a minor bit of utility to WAR, then a similar amount of utility needs to be added to DRK, so WAR doesnt continue to outshine DRK. (as it already is doing)

[Schrute]

Pld is very comparable to WAR in dps atm and plds bring a lot of raid utility. Cover in 4vs is a godsend -covering the main healer after almaguest to stop Aero and earthshaker from killing them, allowing both tanks to remain in tank stance, not to mention divine veil and passage of arms for almaguest and any other big raid wide dmg going out. War has no raid utility to midigate raid wide dmg and in many cases PLD can out dps war. It should not be this close between the two. I do not see how making unchained not sharing a CD timer with IR would make it OP. OP for pulling yes but other than that it will never be used again because it is a HUGE dps loss to use it in lieu of inner release. I suggest MINOR potency buffs because of how unforgiving WAR rotation and the fact war brings way less raid utility than PLD. And if war's utility and identity is locked into being the best dmg dealer of the 3 tanks then it should be without question.