Thread: 4.1 and us tanks

Originally Posted by Azerhan

If you just up the DRK and not the WAR, this last will be forgotten as the MNK in HW imo.
Again, WAR doesn't have anything to support other players when DRK has TBN, just for example. The top in tank now is Pld, you see it everywere; WAR is most used when the fight doesn't need an OT.
We know when only one tank is buff, one is indirectly nerfed. If buffing DRK results to see the WAR set aside...

TBN cant be call raid utility at all in how works due use it dont offer almost nothing to the DRK more that a dps loose depending of who need it in you party list, and for extra mitigation on the MT not really bcs both PLD and WAR surpass by far in the mitigation field specially WAR, so in that DRK and WAR are in the same boat, buff DRK is necesary but not in a huge way bcs we are 200 dps lower and our mitigation is worst in terms of recast and all we lost, the actual level of dps betwen tanks its almost perfect, WAR is the most versatile tank of the moment, PLD is king for the utility but WAR still have the best dps and the best self mitigation, heavensward was a mess due DPS problems betwen tanks and i dont want to see that again.

if WAR need something is meaby utility and SE say alreay they are change shake it off, WAR dont need more dps

Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

While not wrong, I would like to point out WAR does have its share of utility, even if its not quite seen.
Holmgang is a mitigation CD, but its so darn useful, it leaves the other tank to save mitigation CDs for other stuff.

And the most obvious one being slashing resistance.

If you have a NIN, Im pretty sure its better to have WAR put up the debuff, where as SAM puts it up by default. (Correct me if im wrong)

Highlighted important part. After leveling drk to 70 I considered possibly switching so pld and I could have a bit more leeway with dps stance, that was until I realized we had no other source of slashing in the party. So yea, war utility for the win I guess lol

And yea, slashing debuff is in SAM rotation

Originally Posted by Azerhan

snip.

you know how TBN works? Its a 5 seconds shield, you can only make it useful for others on tank busters and cast raid aoes, and the chances of someone need It in just a normal party are minimal on non tanks.
WAR have much more utility in real combat thanks to the shorts CDs and storm eye, they dont have any chance to be Out, the point its have all tanks being viable not make one mandatory for speedruns, bigger dps gaps betwen tanks bring more problems that solutions and thats a proof from heavensward.

From a DRK perspective:

TBN:
This skill should be a consistent dps gain when the shield breaks. It should reimburse both the cost and give 50 blood. Then change it to its PvP description (i.e. 20% for self or target party member, so that your teammate shield will only break under a substantial attack. This isn't something that should be haphazardly spammed in the hope that it breaks on a random auto. The counterattacks should be your reward for knowing all of the cleave timings.

Bloodspiller:
DRK offers the least in the way of personal burst. If so, we should offer more consistent dps on average. (This still works out to be harder than playing a burst-focused class in the long run, because any loss in uptime is costly, rather than just during your burst window).

If Bloodspiller is to hit less hard, then it should at least hit as often (if not more frequently) as equivalents on other tanks. This could be done by increasing the blood gain on Souleater to 20, as it is in PvP. Speaking of Souleater and PvP, the life-steal should apply in Grit, as it does there.

oGCDs:
In 3.x, DA usage on oGCDs was built around the fact that you could apply DA on an earlier combo action and apply it on a later oGCD. Now that DA procs off of most GCD actions, it forces an unnecessary double weave. The cost should be built into the ability. Likewise, DP needs to be reworked so that it sees more use. Just make the DA effect baseline.

In the long-term, I would like to see C+S cost blood and return MP, and DP cost MP and return blood, but I'm not sure if that will be feasible in this expansion, given the timing of when we learn certain skills.

Also, if this tier has taught us anything, Plunge should be 20y, like every other gap closer.

Blood Weapon/Price:
At a 40 second recast, BW doesn't have good synergy with raid buffs. It should be 30 seconds, and be usable in Grit. Blood Price is useless in single target and a bit overpowered in AoE, and should either be re-tuned or re-purposed.

Defensive Cooldowns:
The easiest way to solve DRK's defensive issues is to shorten the recasts on both Shadow Wall and Living Dead, probably by a minute each to bring it in line with WAR. They could and probably should increase the recast on Dark Mind if they do this (or rework the skill entirely).

Sole Survivor probably could do with a rework as well. It's a very niche skill with limited use. It should be a HP/MP leech effect while active.

Grit Activation:
In the interviews leading up to SB, the devs pointed out that one of the main sources of imbalance in HW was the flexibility with which WAR can stance dance compared to the other two tanks, which is why gauge costs were implemented at the start of SB. This was universally disliked. If we can agree that tank stance activation costs are awful, then no tank should have them, period.

In particular, there is no reason why Grit or Darkside should have MP costs. There is a GCD penalty in place already. Having the double penalty on DRK is silly. In fact, the MP cost no longer exists in PvP.

Summary
TBN: Creates a barrier around self or other party member that absorbs damage totaling 20% of your maximum HP. Increases Blood Gauge by 50 and restores MP cost when full 20% is absorbed.

Souleater: Increases blood gauge by 20 and restores HP outside of Grit (50% absorbed).

Bloodspiller: Restores own MP (1200 MP).

Carve and Spit: 450 potency at baseline, costs 2400 MP (DA cost is baseline).

Dark Passenger: 240 potency/mob at baseline, costs 2400 MP.

Plunge: Increase range to 20y. Increased enmity generation.

Blood Weapon: Reduce recast to 30s. Make blood weapon usable in Grit.

Shadow Wall: Reduce recast to 120s.

Living Dead: Reduce recast to 180s.

Sole Survivor: Absorbs HP/MP over time while active.

Grit and Darkside: Remove MP activation cost.

Increase the MP pool, to allow more room to float your resources.

A number of these changes already exist in PvP. Just port them over, and they'll work wonders to the class.