Any chance on classic XI-style "pull camps?"

[SuzakuCMX]

there is no difference between grinding and quest based progression

since quest based progression requires you to grind mobs anyway



There is no difference between sitting at spot X and killing 10 mobs
or being told by an npc to go to spot X and kill 10 mobs


since thats literaly all the difference is, is thgat an npc is telling you to do it

Depends on what the quest is, though yes, quests in this game do happen to be an NPC telling you to kill X mobs rather than you deciding to do it yourself.

[Rowyne]

there is no difference between grinding and quest based progression

since quest based progression requires you to grind mobs anyway



There is no difference between sitting at spot X and killing 10 mobs
or being told by an npc to go to spot X and kill 10 mobs


since thats literaly all the difference is, is thgat an npc is telling you to do it

I've seen you post this viewpoint before, so I know we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, TheVedis.

I see a huge difference.

• Going out and randomly killing 10 enemies: Rewards you with exp per enemy and possible item/gil drops.
• Being told by an NPC to kill the same 10 enemies: Also rewards you with exp per enemy and possible item/gil drops. Plus turning in the quest rewards you with an additional exp reward, and another possible item reward, such as a gear upgrade or gil. Other rewards could include faction rep or marks. Plus, it advances you further in a story, if it is a chain quest or the game utilizes phasing (something WoW uses to dynamically change the world around you depending on where you are in a series of quests).

Also, if the quest writing is good, it's not just, "Go kill X of Y". There are escort quests, gathering quests, bombing quests, defense quests, escape quests, dungeon quests, raid quests, PvP quests...

Quests make the game more immersive, draw you in and make you care about the people of the world you play in.

Some of the best quests I've experienced were in WoW. By the time you were finished in the Plaguelands (a place that had been hit hardest by the undead plague), experiencing the stories of the families and all they had lost, you were emotionally wrought. It culminates in the Battle of Darrowshire, in which you must take part in a ghostly battle to defend and defeat certain NPCs, so that the ghost of a little girl can be reunited with the ghost of her father. It's heartbreaking and beautiful all at once.

Another quest chain has you prove yourself to an old man, who you discover is actually one of the first Paladins. He was exiled but would later rise to lead the Argent Crusade to defeat the Lich King.

The Shadowmoon Valley quests where you uncovered the history of the corrupted orcs, the first warlock, and were lead to fighting Illidan Stormrage at the Black Temple. If you were especially ambitious, you worked for the "Hand of A'dal" title. You had to do two epically long quest chains that could only be completed by clearing two endgame raids (Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep), getting a drop from a boss in a third (Battle of Mount Hyjal), and finishing the attunement to enter a fourth (Black Temple). It took the teamwork and dedication of a progression raiding guild to help their members get it. The quests for this title were made to be no longer obtainable at the end of the expansion they were introduced so they couldn't be steamrolled by raised level caps. The title is now a Feat Of Strength achievement (special achievements that are no longer available).

In Grizzly Hills, there is a quest where you must escape a village of worgen (werewolves) controlled by the mage, Arugal. You and a human jump on the back of a horse and fight off the worgen that are chasing you as you desperately ride to safety.

I could go on, but these are various examples of quests that vary in tone and difficulty.

This is good quest writing. Memorable quest writing. Something I'd much rather experience than standing in one place for hours, killing the same things over and over.

[Dreadnought]

stationary camps are boring to me.
running around a bit is much more interactive and does not get old at all to me or my friends.

also, if so many people are dead set on roaming parties getting just as old as stationary, then why choose one over the other? because one requires more effort? i honestly dont think making the battle system stationary camping is going to make things any more strategic since the game is bare bones compared to FFXI.

also, people argue why not implement something that worked well in its predecessor... well because FFXI is not FFXIVs predecessor. also, FFXI is seen to be outdated in many aspects including its battle system. implementing the FFXI/everquest party system would be a massive step back and looked down upon by new players who are looking for a modern MMO.
what with the permanent bad stigma of FFXIV and the everquest/FFXI style stationary camping with super long battles per trash mob is only going to make FFXIV even more niche than FFXI and it just plain wont cater to my and many many others fast paced twitch mechanic needs.
Yoshi himself said the battles in this game take more than twice as long per trash mob than any other MMO in an interview. you want things to get slower?

[Frein]

I think it's more so about how "grinding" in XI was more like fighting "micro-bosses" whereas "grinding" in XIV (atm) is just an el-oh-el-zergfeast - that is, there's really no skill involved besides pressing buttons. The "pull camps" the OP mentioned involved fighting a mob that a) didn't die in 10-15 seconds, and b) took the planned coordination of other members of your party to defeat - that is, people had actual roles to play and they had to, well, play it or the party wouldn't do well (or wouldn't work at all o.O).

This is why I prefer XI style camps, as well, though this isn't actually what the OP was talking about. He's talking about ToAU+ meripo style where power creep had pushed the pace of battle to almost FFXIV style mass slaughter levels.

Some of the best quests I've experienced were in WoW. By the time you were finished in the Plaguelands (a place that had been hit hardest by the undead plague), experiencing the stories of the families and all they had lost, you were emotionally wrought. It culminates in the Battle of Darrowshire, in which you must take part in a ghostly battle to defend and defeat certain NPCs, so that the ghost of a little girl can be reunited with the ghost of her father. It's heartbreaking and beautiful all at once....

I played WoW until far into TBC and, personally, the only enjoyable quest chain I can remember was the one dealing with Garrosh Hellscream and the Mag'har (most likely because it dealt with important events from Warcraft 3). Other than that WoW could never touch FFXI as far as story writing and presentation went and I found myself just not really paying attention to most quest texts. There was so much of it and most of it was completely inconsequential. It was almost purely a lonely grind to me.

Unlike FFXI, there were few NPCs that followed the player though his/her journey and most of the "important" people were quickly forgotten after the quests they offered were done. Of course, FFXI also liberally used cutscenes since launch while WoW didn't get its first one until WotLK, and even there the low poly character models looked painfully stiff in comparison to FFXI characters.

[SuzakuCMX]

even there the low poly character models looked painfully stiff in comparison to FFXI characters.

watwatwatwat

[Rowyne]

I played WoW until far into TBC and, personally, the only enjoyable quest chain I can remember was the one dealing with Garrosh Hellscream and the Mag'har (most likely because it dealt with important events from Warcraft 3). Other than that WoW could never touch FFXI as far as story writing and presentation went and I found myself just not really paying attention to most quest texts. There was so much of it and most of it was completely inconsequential. It was almost purely a lonely grind to me.

Unlike FFXI, there were few NPCs that followed the player though his/her journey and most of the "important" people were quickly forgotten after the quests they offered were done. Of course, FFXI also liberally used cutscenes since launch while WoW didn't get its first one until WotLK, and even there the low poly character models looked painfully stiff in comparison to FFXI characters.

Oh, you'll get no argument from me that the way most quests in FFXI were presented were better than the way they were presented in WoW, hands down. Hell, the way they're presented in Aion half the time is better. WoW has dated, cartooney graphics and cutscenes were way too long in coming (I remember gasping IRL the first time I saw one in WotLK, because the storytelling was actually starting to catch up). Wrath definitely had some of the most epic, cinematic style content of anything WoW had to offer.

However, I still have to say that from a content and gameplay standpoint, most of WoW's quests (pre-Cataclysm) didn't feel inconsequential or grindy to me. They were fun. Then again, I read all my quests and devour wikis full of lore.

To be honest, one of the biggest reasons I came to this game is I know SE's talent for epic storytelling. Just look at the opening city cutscenes. The first time I saw Limsa Lominsa's, I got chills. I didn't expect a game full of fully-voiced cutscenes from every quest-giver (though SW:TOR has certainly shown us it's possible), but I think I expected a hybrid of WoW/FFXI, in that regard.

I realize that FFXI did not utilize quest-based progression in regards to leveling, but FFXIV did position a questing system as central content. I, like some others, believed that leves would evolve into something more. Look at the opening cinematic. Look at the faction quests that send you to talk to an NPC. There was talk of hamlet defense and speculation that the nearby aetheryte camps would send you to quest hubs. But, as we all know, this didn't happen, and leves were repositioned as solo content. In their place we received few alternatives. A few traditional quests that now reward exp and items/gil, but not enough to really progress from. So now, we've got straight up grinding (to which, if I had been told as a new player that this is the main method of leveling progression, I would have given extreme WTF-face and said, "No thanks"). It's not enough to hold my attention when I have alternatives that provide me with story to sink my teeth into. Definitely something I never thought I'd say about a Final Fantasy title.

SE, you can do better. >.<

[Frein]

watwatwatwat

Do you disagree? Blizzard did a good job with what they got but the character models just don't compare. For reference, here's the cutscene from the Wrathgate event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch4rc5W4dKY

And this is from a FFXI WotG cutscene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwqm0...ure=plpp_video

Notice how complex Lilisette's moves are? The WoW characters have to be content with mostly stock animations and obviously the characters are much blockier.

[SuzakuCMX]

Do you disagree? Blizzard did a good job with what they got but the character models just don't compare. For reference, here's the cutscene from the Wrathgate event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch4rc5W4dKY

And this is from a FFXI WotG cutscene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwqm0...ure=plpp_video

Notice how complex Lilisette's moves are? The WoW characters have to be content with stock animations and obviously the characters are much blockier.

Ah yes, that is quite a good example, thank you.

Now I must figure out why my FFXI graphics aren't that anti-aliased...

EDIT: Also why aren't XIV cutscenes that good?

[Frein]

Now I must figure out why my FFXI graphics aren't that anti-aliased...

EDIT: Also why aren't XIV cutscenes that good?

Most people (including me) did it with a registry hack.

As far as XIV cutscenes go, we have a few good ones, but you're right, most of them are much less ambitious than the FFXI ones.

[SuzakuCMX]

Most people (including me) did it with a registry hack.

As far as XIV cutscenes go, we have a few good ones, but you're right, most of them are much less ambitious than the FFXI ones.

Most of them are you standing there reading text for 10 minutes >_>