Any chance on classic XI-style "pull camps?"

[SuzakuCMX]

Grinding wasn't a centrepiece of any of the FF games except the first few. But only because random encounters generally leveled you up enough for whatever was coming. After VII I think, grinding to improve your damage wasn't as important as knowing how to exploit a monster's weaknesses and diminish its strengths. I've gotten to the end of FFX without grinding, I've never grinded in FFIX (though that may explain why I die so much), and I didn't grind in FFVI but still did reasonably well, though I never got to the end. FFI and FFII were the only two core FF's that I had to grind to beat bosses.

EDIT: I grinded in FFXII though, just so I could get lots of Quickenings >.>
EDIT2: I also think leveling needs to be more...equal between parties and solo players and powerlevelers. It seems that solo-ing to 50 on a battle class is hundreds of times slower than partying or being powerleveled, to the point where it's almost demoralizing to even try to play solo.

[Xoo]

Grinding wasn't a centrepiece of any of the FF games except the first few. But only because random encounters generally leveled you up enough for whatever was coming. After VII I think, grinding to improve your damage wasn't as important as knowing how to exploit a monster's weaknesses and diminish its strengths. I've gotten to the end of FFX without grinding, I've never grinded in FFIX (though that may explain why I die so much), and I didn't grind in FFVI but still did reasonably well, though I never got to the end. FFI and FFII were the only two core FF's that I had to grind to beat bosses.

I'll admit that grinding solo in a single-player game is boring as hell. But when you incorporate the massively multiplayer of MMORPG into the equation, it was thrilling to find a group of players who knew their jobs and gave 110% while playing. Although to some grinding might be a bit unnecessary, throughout my XI career I grew to love it when it was good and naturally hate it when it wasn't.

[SuzakuCMX]

I'll admit that grinding solo in a single-player game is boring as hell. But when you incorporate the massively multiplayer of MMORPG into the equation, it was thrilling to find a group of players who knew their jobs and gave 110% while playing. Although to some grinding might be a bit unnecessary, throughout my XI career I grew to love it when it was good and naturally hate it when it wasn't.

I don't think party grinding is fun as much as experiencing a game with others is. Honestly if I could find a damn party to play with, I'd have fun with most anything. Unfortunately, as far as my experience goes, finding low-level parties outside of linkshells is hard and fairly uncommon.

[Xoo]

I don't think party grinding is fun as much as experiencing a game with others is. Honestly if I could find a damn party to play with, I'd have fun with most anything. Unfortunately, as far as my experience goes, finding low-level parties outside of linkshells is hard and fairly uncommon.

The problem with this MMO is that most have already powerleveled all of their classes beyond low levels and expect you to do the same. If you insist on finding a party at these levels, you're going to have to do a lot of shouting and linkshell collection, in addition to amassing many people to your friend list.

[Elexia]

Grinding wasn't a centrepiece of any of the FF games except the first few. But only because random encounters generally leveled you up enough for whatever was coming.

Hm..nope all of the FFs had grinds in them, this is where the fact people think of grind and immediately go into a frenzy without thinking:

FFI - III - You definitely grinded for levels due to difficulty in general.
FFIV - V - You didn't have to grind for levels, but it certainly helped in V because of the job system.
FFVI - You grinded for levels, you absolutely had to during the world of ruin
FFVII - You grinded. Holy shit did you grind if you wanted master materia lol.
FFVIII - Grinding was detrimental, this is actually the only FF game where you didn't grind in terms of progression, however you had to draw grind.
FFIX - Chocobo Hot & Cold grinding and yes you did need to be at least level 50 by the end-game unless you knew how to manipulate enemies and items perfectly.
FFX - God weapon grind.
FFX-2 - ...A lot of grinding lol.
FFXI - MMO.
FFXII - Grinding in a different way, especially hunts and treasure lol. (While it seems like a side activity..you had to grind them if you wanted the best stuff.)
FFXIII - Weapon upgrading grinding.
FFXIII-2 - Monster raising grinding.

This is ignoring side games. So yeah, grinding, in some fashion, has always been a part of FF, it's just never really thought about unless it aggravates you.

[SuzakuCMX]

Hm..nope all of the FFs had grinds in them, this is where the fact people think of grind and immediately go into a frenzy without thinking:

FFI - III - You definitely grinded for levels due to difficulty in general.
FFIV - V - You didn't have to grind for levels, but it certainly helped in V because of the job system.
FFVI - You grinded for levels, you absolutely had to during the world of ruin
FFVII - You grinded. Holy shit did you grind if you wanted master materia lol.
FFVIII - Grinding was detrimental, this is actually the only FF game where you didn't grind in terms of progression, however you had to draw grind.
FFIX - Chocobo Hot & Cold grinding and yes you did need to be at least level 50 by the end-game unless you knew how to manipulate enemies and items perfectly.
FFX - God weapon grind.
FFX-2 - ...A lot of grinding lol.
FFXI - MMO.
FFXII - Grinding in a different way, especially hunts and treasure lol. (While it seems like a side activity..you had to grind them if you wanted the best stuff.)
FFXIII - Weapon upgrading grinding.
FFXIII-2 - Monster raising grinding.

This is ignoring side games. So yeah, grinding, in some fashion, has always been a part of FF, it's just never really thought about unless it aggravates you.

About half of those games you listed didn't require grinding, especially X, XII, IX, V, and IV, unless you wanted the game to be easier or wanted "good" weapons/equipments.

[Elexia]

About half of those games you listed didn't require grinding, especially X, XII, IX, V, and IV.

Did you ever fight Ozma? Let alone obtain Ark in FFIX? Did you utilize "subjob abilities" in FFV?

[SuzakuCMX]

Did you ever fight Ozma? Let alone obtain Ark in FFIX? Did you utilize "subjob abilities" in FFV?

Ozma isn't required, Ark was manageable with Clear-headed, subjob abilities did not require grinding.

[Asiaine]

About half of those games you listed didn't require grinding, especially X, XII, IX, V, and IV, unless you wanted the game to be easier or wanted "good" weapons/equipments.

FFVII was a fun game, and did not really benefit from grinding (I believe the mobs scaled with you), unless you reached max level then everything was super tough?

I think it is important to differentiate between 'grinding for levels in order to continue the game's main storyline' versus 'grinding to get every last bit of content'.

[Asiaine]

We live in a twitter world. Everyone wants things to happen quickly, now now now. Instant gratification is the buzz word of this decade.

FFXI is from a different era. Where focus was more on the journey than the destination. Where the act of progressing through your character's life was considered a good thing.

Now, the focus is on 'end game'. Get to the end as quickly as possible.

We saw signs of this in FFXI (and other MMORPGs) were people were BUYING characters that were already levelled for them. What better sign is there that focus has shifted to being 'maxed out' on everything.

It seems FFXIV is feeding this new desire in life. And feeding it well. So well in fact, that I level so quickly I do not even notice I got new skills, let alone learn every caveat of the previous skills I had.

In FFXI (and some other RPGs and MMORPGs) one would wait a long time before getting that next highly coveted skill. Then spending days (or weeks) enjoying it, and learning to maximize its benefit before getting the next one.

Instant gratification. Level faster. Lots of XP now now now!

And this is perhaps the driving force between the shift from 'stationary camps' to 'mobile camps'. The burning desire to level to 50 as quickly as possible can not realistically be met with a stationary camp (why pull a mob to camp if it dies in 3 seconds, quicker to move to the mob instead).

Move, kill, move, kill, move kill kill kill, faster, faster, faster. Finally, level 50, NOW I can start 'the real' game, and work on end game content.

That appears to be the mentality being satiated, and FFXIV is doing it well.

In order to move to stationary camps (yet maintain this level speed), the mobs that die would have to give HUGE amounts of experieince. To not need to move, would mean the mob would have to take a while to kill (make it worthwhile to pull to camp). And if it takes a while to kill (say, 60 seconds instead of 10), it would need to give off 6x the experience. Getting 3000 xp instead of 500xp.

And I can see that being exploited by PLers so easily.

A lot of thinking, design, and experimenting will be needed if they wish to combine stationary camps with super fast levelling, and not leave it to being so easily exploited.

Either that, or we put away our desires to reach end game as quickly as possible.

For me, I perfer the journey. I would be happy to continue levelling at a slow rate if it means I get to spend time perfecting my strategy, equipment, macros, and skill.