Can Healers Stop Running Ahead in Dungeons

[sorawild34]

Not saying all healers do this, but oh boy when they do they expect me to be able to tank 5 groups of mobs at once and then blame me for the wipe when all they did was DPS and not heal me once. They say "use your cooldowns" when I already am. I'm a DRK main so I don't have Hollowed Ground like Paladin's that makes me invincible, even though Hollowed Ground doesn't even work half the time. And also why do so many healers run past the group of mobs we are fighting and heal from there, kinda curious since I don't play healer all that much.

[Mavrias]

Hallowed Ground works. It should just be used at the beginning of the pull when you're near full health rather than when you feel like you're about to die.

When I run past the tank, and heal from "further ahead" it's usually because I wasn't sure if they were stopping there or continuing on to a bigger pull. If the tank isn't I'm not gonna waste time running back "behind them" because I may need to start casting right then and there.


That being said, if the healer is properly balancing healing and dpsing, you actually can tank 5+ groups at once. Your defense is your responsibility, the health bar is the healer's responsibility. I personally don't blame tanks for wipes if I see them using their cooldowns properly and holding hate. If the healer was truly not healing you, then they were a bad healer.

[Tigore]

Sometimes if I got aggro on me, I run a little past the tank to force the enemies on me into the "AoE pit". It's a general habit I have as both a healer and DPS so the tank doesn't have to chase after me to pick up the enemies. It usually ends up being a mess everywhere when other people with aggro don't help with it or worse run away from the tank. I do try my best to avoid HoTs when a group of enemies are about to die, but there are times the enemies died faster than I anticipated and the HoTs are still rolling for the next pull.

My condolences for you that you got Healers who were really DPS queuing for the quicker times.

As for Hallowed Ground, that one tends to be more effective when you make a really big pull then pop it right when you are stopping the enemies in a spot. If I see a Paladin do this, I will start to throw out Aero 3 / Holy, Gravity, or Miasma 2 / Bane DoT Spread to take advantage of the moment.

[KDSilver]

You don't have hallowed ground, you have living dead, and you have a 20s windows for it.
10s to be actived, 10s to be healed.

In otherword, it is also strong, especially when you are a whm, cause you can just ignore damages for ~ 20 (less cause it need to be healed).

Otherwise, i won't say anything for that type of thread.
Won't defend your position neither healers's one.

[Mikazuki_Aura]

Healers have cast times. Pulls are generally optimal when the tank hits 0.0-0.1 seconds before everyone else, so casters in general usually run in front of the tank since it takes ~2.4 seconds for their skills to activate. Somehow the 'tank should hit first' rule got corrupted to 'tank should run first' somewhere down the line though. Normally in a pull casters will cast the moment they're in range, so they start the fight behind the tank, but slowly move forward whenever windows open up from AspBen, Regen, Aero, Triplecast etc, and this 'forward sliding' resets every engagement zone. There are certain thresholds past which simply running will pull mobs, so if you see a caster run ahead of you and then suddenly stop in the middle of nowhere, it's a good bet that an aggro zone is immediately after that point in the map.

Defensive cooldowns with the exception of Thrill of Battle, Holmgang and Living Dead should be used *before* your HP bar depletes. If a healer is asking you to use cooldowns when you're using them, chances are that you're activating them when your HP bar is already <25%, which is way too late for them to stop you from planting your face into the ground.

Finally, WHM are a bit special in that large pulls are generally better handled with Holy than with actual healing, since the damage mitigation from the AoE stun outweighs the HP recovery from Cure II, so if a WHM multicasts Holy instead of healing you when your HP isn't in a good state, this is quite normal. If you're talking about an AST multicasting Gravity however, you have a problematic healer on your hands.

The general formula for a pull is:
{[Tank MaxHP]/([TankDmgTaken/s]-[Heal/s])}>{[MobHP]/[PartyDmg/s]}

If Party DPS is too low it's a wipe, if tank maxHP is too low for the pull it's a wipe, if tank takes too much damage from not using cooldowns/standing in AoE/pulling too many mobs it's a wipe, if heal/s is too low it's a wipe.
A 'safe' pull is when [Heal/s] > [TankDmgTaken/s], but these will always be slower than pushing for the point where both sides of the above equation are almost equal.

Most tanks check DPS and healer weapon iLvls at the start of a dungeon to estimate how many mobs they are likely going to be able to handle, and then test it conservatively with the very first pull. Some skip the check and go straight to testing. In general if the first mob test is a wipe, then both DPS players and the healer are underperforming relative to their iLvl.

[Raqrie_Tohka]

Sorry to belittle your DRK but Paladins don't need healers. They self-heal while the healer perma-dps and only use off-gcd to top-off once in a while. Oh, they can also Hallowed ground while tanking 20 mobs so everyone gets to do big juicy aoe. They also have an innate stun, and an aoe blind so they dodge everything. Op Op Op. Some healers are just spoiled from running with too many Paladins :P

[Maku]

Sorry to belittle your DRK but Paladins don't need healers. They self-heal while the healer perma-dps and only use off-gcd to top-off once in a while. Oh, they can also Hallowed ground while tanking 20 mobs so everyone gets to do big juicy aoe. They also have an innate stun, and an aoe blind so they dodge everything. Op Op Op. Some healers are just spoiled from running with too many Paladins :P

I have totally noticed that I am spoiled with PLDs now and DRKs and WARs just always feel crazy to deal with.

[Jas710]

If people other than the tank deliberately run ahead and act as the puller, let them tank their aggro and subsequently die. Repeat where necessary until they figure it out.

[Neophyte]

If people other than the tank deliberately run ahead and act as the puller, let them tank their aggro and subsequently die. Repeat where necessary until they figure it out.

That's like sitting down with crossed arms in a soccer game for fun because your goalkeeper left his goal and did an offensive action.

I'll never understand people making a small annoyance into something like: DPS hits one out of three enemies of the next group, tanks starts typing (totally important), healer gets emnity of the other 2, healer dies, group dies, tank finished writing, that he is sooo annoyed.
Just do that flash/overpower/unmend and continue playing.

I'll never get that type of drama queen tanks. When a dumb person drops a stone in the well, I'm glad to face the decoyed orcs, instead of throwing him into the well, too.

[ManuelBravo]

It's simple basics 101, and sadly there are people who think they know their job. Example healers also don't understand teh simple concept of not placing regen during a pull and then blame tanks -.-. If a healer keeps running a ahead communicate it's making it hard on your or that your not that comfortable tanking specially if it's your first time there or have any hesitation. Most people will understand unless they are total trolls. If it continues refuse to tank and let them wipe. Most tank follow these rules,;

IF I'm and tanking don't pull or run ahead of the tank.

IF you pull by mistake I will tank, things happen.

If you keep pulling you tank them.

If people don't listen we warn them. IF they still don't listen refuse to tank until they get it together or request to be kicked.