Questions abour RDM rotations. (Aoe and single target)

[Rawrz]

K i am trying on a dummy to explain my issue a bit more but i do not get what to do when i run into running the melee combo, while the lower one (the one that should be holy or flare) is proced already, am I simply doing something wrong that leads to that?

For aoe why would i spam scatter, get to 30/30 and moulinet? Don't I wanna scatter > insta cast one element > scatter > insta cast other till I get 30/30, spam it some more where I can use 2 moulinet to be over 30/30 still? I am not really understanding the gauge and why it lights up.

Not much time for specific reply. Its basic potency math. Verstone/verfire are 270 potency as your dual cast fodder. Scatter on three targets is 300. You would ignore the proc until 2 or less. Also:

Most classes have mind numbing AOE after 4 mobs.

Its not as simple as scatter for 3 mobs. Its:

3 Mobs: Scatter and alternate between VerAero and VerThunder to quickly build Black and white mana.

4 Mobs: Spam Scatter.

I like to alternate between using Embolden for one pull and Manafiction for the next.

Moulinet is what you spend your black and white mana on for a pay off on 3+ pulls. Your goal, when you plan on using manafiction is to get mana to:

15, 30, 45 or 75.

15 + manafiction = 1 Moulinet
30 + manafiction = 2 Moulinet
45 + manafiction = 3 Moulinet
75 + Manafiction = 4 Moulinet (use 1 then manafiction)

You also have all your OGCDS to weave, fleche, contre, Corps, Displacement, mana shift the healer, etc..

[Snow_Princess]

Not much time for specific reply. Its basic potency math. Verstone/verfire are 270 potency as your dual cast fodder. Scatter on three targets is 300. You would ignore the proc until 2 or less. Also:

basic math doesn't tell me if building to 30/30 faster is of benefit, what the difference of no light, red light, purple light does other then slow down build of mana for the other between white and purple. You really did not really answer anything quoting your self, I saw the post, I still had questions.

DO the different lights effect scatter? Do I try keep my mana above 30/30 for aoe? why would i go to 75 + if I am suppose keep it near zero?

What does "ignore proc unless 2 or less" mean?

If you have one of them already procd, I would use the finisher from your melee combo that isn't procd(such as you have VerStone ready for use, finish your melee with VerFire to possibly have that proc, but also so your White mana is lower than your Black). That way you have a chance to get both procd, and go into the balancing dance with both available to be used, so you can skip Jolt or Impact(if you have it ready for use).

Cant have the proc if black is higher, so your left with the same situation if you holy or flare.

[SendohJin]

no, light doesn't matter for Scatter.

If Manafication is not close to being up, just use Enchanted Moulinet every chance you get

Otherwise you want get to 75 because
75 use Enchanted Moulinet, 75-30 = 45
45 use Manafication, 45 x 2 = 90
90 use Enchanted Moulinet x 3

"ignore proc unless 2 or less" - Don't use Verfire/Verstone if there are 3 or more mobs.

[Snow_Princess]

no, light doesn't matter for Scatter.

If Manafication is not close to being up, just use Enchanted Moulinet every chance you get

Otherwise you want get to 75 because
75 use Enchanted Moulinet, 75-30 = 45
45 use Manafication, 45 x 2 = 90
90 use Enchanted Moulinet x 3

"ignore proc unless 2 or less" - Don't use Verfire/Verstone if there are 3 or more mobs.

so when it is up, I use thunder/ aero insta casts ONLY. For 3+ off scatter to get it up 50/50 (or slightly under) asap? What if it is scatter > aero > scatter > stone > scatter > thunder>scatter >fire (if you get lucky) to get 50/50?

[Mxhunter]

basic math doesn't tell me if building to 30/30 faster is of benefit, what the difference of no light, red light, purple light does other then slow down build of mana for the other between white and purple. You really did not really answer anything quoting your self, I saw the post, I still had questions.

DO the different lights effect scatter? Do I try keep my mana above 30/30 for aoe? why would i go to 75 + if I am suppose keep it near zero?

What does "ignore proc unless 2 or less" mean?



Cant have the proc if black is higher, so your left with the same situation if you holy or flare.

First off You can only do 3 enchanted Moulinet as your gauge maxes at 100/100. RDM only has 3 moves that do AoE damage, Scatter, Contre Sixte & Moulinet/Enchanted Moulinet. The quickest way to get 3 enchanted moulinets and still be doing AoE damage is to spam scatter non stop until you reach 45/45 then use manafication to get to 90/90 of your black and white mana gauge and then proceed to moulinet away, as cost 30/30 for each enchanted moulinet.

What do you mean by different light effects? Do you mean when Scatter is showing the dotted yellow square around it? If that is what you mean that just means you will gain more points in the gauge if you use scatter when its highlighted like that.

If after you use the melee combo and verflare and verholy are up and either verstone or verfire are already proc'd just use the one that has less in the gauge and completely ignore the verstone or verfire. sometimes it will work out that you can proc both and sometimes it will not and you end up wasting the proc, however, the damage from verholy and verflare is worth the wasted proc.

For building back up the opposite side. so they are close to balanced I would suggest you use swift cast + acceleration veraero/verthunder right away if you have those up. if you do not have those up you can use the proc from verstone/verfire and then use dualcast on veraero/verhunder you will usually not exceed the 30pt limit which will cause the gauge to slow down. If those are not up. Use Impactful or Jolt, (if impactful is up always use that over jolt) then dualcast to veraero/verthunder if it procs use the proc and the same mana type in the dual cast to get it back up. this usually takes 2-3 casts to get it balanced.

If this doesn't help explain what I think you are asking PM me and I will give you my discord contact and try to explain it over voice chat. Or I can meet you on Balmung after 5:30pm pst on one of my Alts.

[ChaoticCrimson]

The colors on the border of the gauge are basically just for aesthetic purposes, indicating that the gauges are being filled. They have no other real purpose than that. As for the aoe, it seems to me that you want to primarily do Scatter > Dualcast alternating main Ver-spells, so as to help supplement your gauges and wear down one foe faster than the others to help relieve the tanks/healers. Then when you've built up your mana enough, use your E. Moulinet. When you're dealing with 3+ mobs, you basically want to ignore the procs completely until the mob number drops back below three. Don't forget to weave in Contre Sixte too whenever it's ready. As for how many E. Moulinets to use at a time, this was something I was rather curious about myself. It seems building for the maximum three is the consensus here, at any rate.

[Tigore]

If one of your mana bars is falling behind and both Verfire and Verstone proc, you ignore the element you have a lot of as others said until they are balanced.

If Black Mana is low - Use the Verfire > Verthunder dualcast combo. Keep using Jolt / Impact > Verthunder or Verfire > Verthunder procs until Black Mana catches up. Use your Verstone > Verthunder as normal afterwards.
If White Mana is low - Use the Verstone > Veraero dualcast combo. Keep using Jolt / Impact > Veraero or Verstone > Veraero procs until White Mana catches up. Use your Verfire > Veraero as normal afterwards.

Both Verfire and Verstone have 30 second timers. They don't have to be used right away, so you can afford to catch up your bars before using the procs. Plus you get a better DPS gain using your dual cast on long casts since you will still have to wait on the 2.5s Global cooldown.

For the spell AoE, you spam Scatter with 4+ enemies. At 3 enemies, you can use the dualcast on Veraero or Verthunder to speed up the mana bar. For the melee burst, I found Enchanted Moulinet to be more useful on 3+ targets.

[JunseiKei]

I have a hard time knowing what to do when I got 2 procs and the one type keeps procing so I keep using one (Because of duel cast) Do I just eat not having a duel cast when I keep getting lucky and swift cast the other element?

For having multiple procs at once, if you can cast the same type of magic without being 30 above another, it's fine to double up. IE: Verstone Ready and Verfire Ready; casting Verstone ready into Veraero, then using Verfire Ready into Verthunder is OK. If you would end up 30 over another mana type, then you don't want to do that as you'll gain the lesser of the mana types slower.

For Aoe rotations, do I just spam scatter? or do I scatter > element to try get to 30/30 faster and thus 40 ish -50 to use manafication for enchanted moulinet? It just feels odd I am just here to spam one button for AoE

Copy and pasting a response I made to another thread.

Forgive me for butting in.

Generally speaking, just spamming Scatter is enough. While you get the same potency using Scatter and VerAero/VerThunder, you'll spend more overall time on the mobs alternating between single target and AoE spells. Using VerHoly and VerFlare is a DPS loss compared to Enchanted Moulinet (550 versus 200(*). You switch to AoE rotation at 3 targets for RDM, so that'd make the potency 600). You might gain white and black magic faster using scatter into single target, but you gain time on targets.

From how I understood it when I thought about what you were advised and assuming gauge is at 0:
Scatter + scatter = 600 potency + 6 white AND black mana (discounting 25% proc)
Scatter+ VerAero/Thunder = 600 potency + 3 white AND black + 11 to white OR black
Enchanted Moulinet at 30/30 mana.
Double scatter would take 5 GCDs. Scatter + single target takes 4 GCDs because of needing both mana at 30.
Using your procs, Verstone or Verfire, results in a DPS loss of 30 and only a mana gain of 3 over double scatter.
Accounting for Enhanced Scatter, you can gain enough mana for Moulinet anywhere between 3 GCDs or 5 GCDs. Yay for RNG~

With me, I keep the enmity/enemy list open so I can always see each add's HP levels. As soon as I see the 3 final mobs down to low levels, I start doing single target and will hold off using Moulinet, even if I'm already at 3x/3x.

Like I said above, you can scatter and go back into a single target spell as you won't lose potency with just 3 targets. You will have a potency loss with more. The mana type gains from using scatter and a ver are minimal, if not outright inefficient, when you begin to factor time (a resource people often disregard) and the amount of targets present.

[Snow_Princess]

Thanks for the help but I think people are misunderstanding me on one specific case.

I have Manafication ready, but on something over a group of 3, so I scatter first, now people said thunder or aero correct? so if it procs, why wouldn't I do scatter > stone > scatter > thunder? (starting at 0/0)
This means I would be hard casting scatter, then insta cast stone to use the proc, insted of aero, since people made it clear hard casting stone is useless.

[Rawrz]

Thanks for the help but I think people are misunderstanding me on one specific case.

I have Manafication ready, but on something over a group of 3, so I scatter first, now people said thunder or aero correct? so if it procs, why wouldn't I do scatter > stone > scatter > thunder?
This means I would be hard casting scatter, then insta cast stone to use the proc, insted of aero, since people made it clear hard casting stone is useless.

You keep misunderstanding every piece of advice given to you. Slow down and think about this with me.

On Black mage, getting a proc after casting Fire, causes a free and instant cast Fire III. At 50, this proc took immediate priority, since it costs you 0 MP and does more damage than Fire 1.

On RDM, a proc is nothing more than an ENHANCED jolt. It just replaced jolt as part of your filler spell. Jolts purpose, just like Verstone,Veraero and impact is to have a short cast time to proc the effect of Dual cast.

Veraero and Verthunder have a 5 second cast time, so hard casting them while in combat means that you spend TWO whole gcds on them. At 300 potency, thats like using two 150 potency skills at a 2.5 GCD. Dual cast, removes the cast time, making them instant cast, so they only consume 1 GCD. The damage goes from 150 potency a GCD to 300! 300 potency + 11 mana gain will always be better than 270 potency and 9 mana gain.

So again, the procs are there for single target (when 2 or less mobs,) so that you can use them to dual cast VerAero/VerThunder to quickly get to spending your gauge once its high enough.

and AGAIn for the AOE. Its alternate between Scatter -> Veraero/Verthunder ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNLLLLLLLLLLLY at 3 mobs. At 4 mobs its scatter spam.

Hope this helps!