Is the vote kick system improperly implemented for how it's actually being used?

[Miste]

I personally think kicking for different playstyle should not be allowed. It is getting abused a lot. SE should look into their policy and update it.

Update it to what though?

If they don't allow kicks for different play styles I don't think you realize what would happen....you would get punished for removing any player even if one single player was forcing their play style on 3 others who didn't want it.

Like the tank situation I mentioned. The tank wants to speed run and pulls multiple groups. The healer feels stressed and doesn't like it so they ask them to just do single pulls please and the two DPS agree with healer. The tank ignores this and continues to multipull.

They can't kick the tank because it would be a differing play styles issue so if they do they'll all get punished for abusing the system. What now? Vote abandon and force everyone to requeue and wait even longer due to one person who didn't want to compromise in group content? Doesn't seem fair.

[Yeol]

If they don't allow kicks for different play styles I don't think you realize what would happen....you would get punished for removing any player even if one single player was forcing their play style on 3 others who didn't want it.

Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment. They are not abusing anything in this situation.

In your example, if they ask the tank nicely but he keeps on ignoring them and kept forcing his style. Just kick him for harassment.

In the end, you want people to be more cooperative rather than selfish. This is one of the ways to make sure that players adjust to their party needs.

[Zojha]

Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment.

But that then means you'd be harassing the tank by forcing him to do smaller pulls (which he doesn't want) and then you'd kick him if he doesn't comply to your harassment.

Wow. You've literally justified mobbing there. Gee, you should really think that through again. Playstyle differences aren't harassment.

[Yeol]

But that then means you'd be harassing the tank by forcing him to do smaller pulls (which he doesn't want) and then you'd kick him if he doesn't comply to your harassment.

Wow. You've literally justified mobbing there. Gee, you should really think that through again. Playstyle differences aren't harassment.

Yes, you are correct, playstyle difference is not harassment. It is FORCING others to play your way that is bad here.

Always go with group vote. If tank wanted to do a large pull but everyone else said no, why would he still do it?
It will be a waste of time followed by wipes if the healer wasn't able to keep him up. And in the end, eventually, the party will kick him because he forced his way.

Tank in this situation needs to use his mind. He is not a victim of the healer and dps. It is part of his role to do what is best for the party. And the party said exactly what they needed of him. What did he do? Ignored them.

If you remember that tank complaining on the forums that he kept getting kicked from multiple DF groups, and it turned out because he never listened to his healers?
And what did people tell him? Fix your attitude and do what is best for your party.

Now, I will pass kicking for different playstyle but my point is that it gets abused a lot. Which is the complaint here.
If it is an issue, simply replace it with something else or fix it.

[Miste]

If it is an issue, simply replace it with something else or fix it.

Yeah a few of you keep saying this, but like I said: How?

Any suggestions on what they could change to make the system more fair than now? Because I cannot personally think of a way to fix it to be more fair than it is now and I've thought about it a lot and SE has a whole staff that can brain storm this....if there was a more fair way to design the system don't you think they would have done it after 4 years?

[Miste]

Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment. They are not doing abusing anything in this situation.
In your example, if they ask the tank nicely but he keeps on ignoring them and doing his thing. Just kick him for harassment.

Uh...you might want to think a bit about what you just said.

If forcing someone to do something they don't want to is harassment then the tank in my example could claim the other 3 are harassing him that they are trying to get him to change his playstyle.

So under your definition of harassment being "forcing people to do something they don't want to" then both sides are harassing each other....then both sides are guilty in this case.

It would be hypocritical to claim harassment on one side while the other is harassing as well.

Also I very much disagree that just playing a video game how you personally want to is harassment. Like...harassment is a pretty strong negative word, just because a DPS for example is playing very poorly and I don't like how he is playing I am not gonna claim they are harassing me just for playing how they want. That would be ridiculous.

Or an option "Uncooperative" can be added.

This is the same as now. Any and all play style differences will just use "Uncooperative".

This changes nothing at all.


You have to look at the big picture of the reason why SE allows "different playstyle" kicks. It is because they cannot be biased and tell the community what is "acceptable" play styles and what isn't.

We as a community have to deal with our own disputes when the dispute is entirely centered on play style because SE cannot take sides.

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

This argument just defeats itself, because you are forgetting that people who don't want to be kicked for possible play style clash also have the option to only queue with friends or join/make a PF group to avoid people kicking them for their play style.

So what point were you making exactly?

You didn't answer my question to you either so I'll ask again. How do you propose they fix the vote kick system in a logical and fair way?

[Ayer2015]

You didn't answer my question to you either so I'll ask again. How do you propose they fix the vote kick system in a logical and fair way?

My original post outlines what I believe is appropriate rationale; afk/offline, and harassment.

Anyway... people will do what they want. I just find our community has been going to s**t the past while. People expect too much from random group matching, and kicking people who wait 20-30min isn't the best behavior to reinforce.

[Miste]

My original post outlines what I believe is appropriate rationale; afk/offline, and harassment.

Anyway... people will do what they want. I just find our community has been going to s**t the past while. People expect too much from random group matching, and kicking people who wait 20-30min isn't the best behavior to reinforce.

Yes, people expect too much sometimes, but that expectation goes both ways so it is unfair to call one expectation wrong and the other right.

Some people expect others to play with a certain level of competence and sometimes it goes awry and if they are in the minority then there should be consequences if they refuse to compromise.
But some people also expect others to put up with extremely bad play that very severely negatively impacts the entire group and wastes everyone's time and expect no consequences.

I mean there is only so many times you can tell someone to put the square block in the square hole, and yet they keep trying to put it in the triangle hole. Eventually you have one person holding back 3 or 7 other players after multiple wipes and wasted time and all those players don't want to have to requeue just to finish the content so removing the one player who just doesn't get it after multiple attempts is best for the group. Three-seven players should not end up penalized because of one player. The one player kicked can reflect on what they need to learn in order to complete the fight and/or try again with a new group.

So again it is a majority rule. If people vote kick and it passes that means enough people wanted you gone. Not saying it never gets abused for no reason, but in my 4 years I've only been vote kicked ONE time, and I can say honestly it was my own fault and I rarely see others get kicked for anything but offline or afk.

So my question is what are others doing to get kicked so much to make it worth changing the system to something that is in my opinion less fair than what we have now? If this "randomly kicking people for no reason" was so rampant then after 4 years I should have seen some of it with how much DF I've done.

DF brings you into a group. Not solo. So you have times where you may have to compromise or face consequences for not at least attempting to appease the majority.

Doing any content without a full premade means you have to compromise sometimes. Don't want to work with the team you got? Don't get mad if you get kicked for it.

Also I am talking about outright refusal to even try to do what your team is asking. Like if someone wasn't doing something they should be doing and the group asks them to all they need to do is say "Sure, I'll try" and I am telling you that would be enough for most people. You said you'll try so no problem, you didn't ignore them or outright refuse without even trying.

So if you are queuing DF then be ready to compromise and listen if your team agrees there is something you can do to help the content go smoother or better for the group. That is what I do and I've only been kicked one time in 4 years and that one time was because someone started insulting me so I lashed out back at them which wasn't the best choice, but I was already in a bad mood so I snapped.

[Rokke]

They can't kick the tank because it would be a differing play styles issue so if they do they'll all get punished for abusing the system. What now? Vote abandon and force everyone to requeue and wait even longer due to one person who didn't want to compromise in group content? Doesn't seem fair.

The funniest part about the all or nothing vote is that could lead to more vote abandons or healers/tanks "disconnecting", which would make dps queues even worse lol

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

If 1 person wants to only hit blizzard thats their prerogative. If the party isnt on board with that and doesn't want them there, starting a vote is theirs.The party shouldn't be punished and HAVE to carry dead weight. If they are ok with it, then they can drag them along. If they aren't, they can hope the next person queue spits up is better.