When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

[Riko_Futatabi]

I understand that what's draining you is the repetitiveness of having to reprimand players continually. And this it seems has almost "broke" you and what seems to be your patient nature.

Understand that it is often easy to generalize a group of players such as "Melee DPS" like they are repeatedly doing wrong(almost like they are a single entity), where in fact, you are coming across different individuals time and again that are doing wrong. Think of a teacher in a class, many times they've seen pupils do wrong, year after year. Would that teacher just kick pupils out of the class for not understanding something? A good teacher wouldn't that's for sure! A lot of individuals play this game and many play it well. Everyone's a teacher to some degree or another. Humans are wired to problem solve, when something is wrong we notice it above all else. It's why you see many forums that seem overly negative because most of the time people go to a forum when something is wrong and they want to fix it. Meanwhile, people that are without problems are playing away contently.

Anyway my point is that kicking is the easy way to solve a problem, but don't give in to that slippery slope which can end up changing yourself for the worse and possibly even the person you kicked! They might learn something, but it likely won't be what you wanted them to learn.

[missybee]

But in no way, shape or form is it justified to kick a player just because YOU decide what should be beneficial to the group.

You can say that until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't change the "differing playstyles" clause.

At the end of the day, the majority (albeit only a slight majority) is going to decide what they want.

[Hruodig]

If you want competency, get 3 other players to go with you in the future. Otherwise, you're expecting WAY too much of the community. Everyone plays this game for many and different reasons. Some to get away and enjoy what they play, and some of us (raiders) who have end goals and achieving higher progressive content. But in no way, shape or form is it justified to kick a player just because YOU decide what should be beneficial to the group. I'm not saying you're wrong on the problem, but kicking players because they're not doing what you and the group is asking is toxic to the group and you're part of the problem (not you, but the player kicking said player for those reasons).

Players being offline, harassing others and saying things that aren't necessary, are kick-able offense. If you have an aoe player in the group like blm or rdm and they're doing their job, resume your normal routine with the party. Again, if you really want someone to do what you need to, to get a dungeon cleared, it's smarter to bring 3 others who have the same understanding and mutual agreement. Don't expect the thousands and thousands of players to be on the same bed of dreams and goals. Anything outside of raid endgame should not be kicked without legitimate reasons.

If in raid and they're under performing, then yes, you have every right to kick them, as endgame is not a piece of content meant for casual players who want to "have fun and play the game". You do that on normal raids and other content in the game.

I can't believe that wanting dpses to use aoe abilities in aoe situations is expecting WAY too much of the community. What a fucking joke, lmao.

[DubiousDisk]

I dont kick, the run is going to be slow, but it's going to be done at some point.

I rather just do the dungeon and speed it up in my own way than worry about kicking someone else.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's just a game folks. Kicking people because their dps isn't close to the top 1% is dumb. Not everyone wants to be pro. They play the game to have fun. They are not interested in spending endless hours reading up on theorycrafting and practicing the perfect rotation on a training dummy.

AoE rotations are less complex than your standard opener, thus easier, albeit it a little boring. Let's compare Samurai.

Your basic three Sen rotation + Midare equates 3,230 potency pressing eight unique buttons on a single target.
Your basic aoe rotation + Tenka equates to 4,730 potency pressing five unique buttons on six targets.

So you deal substantially higher damage through multiple targets and press less buttons. Want to explain how this is somehow "pro" levels?

[Awful]

Snip

That's just it people are gonna play how they want to at the end of the day and i'm gonna play how I want to no ones the same and this argument will forever be a thing among any kind of player whether they be casual, raider, etc. People have standards on what they believe is good or bad play and honestly what you said is all subjective i'm not advocating for top DPS nor am I advocating kicking people for arbitrary reasons because there can be multiple reasons why someone kicks another or why people encourage good or bad play.

At the end of the day it's just a video game and people think way too much into these things I just posted what my thoughts are no one has to agree with them you can see it as selfish or whatever but honestly it's just how i've played MMOs. So really this is just a back and forth argument with the community that'll always be split and it's how it always will be as there are people who play how they want to and no one can control anything.

Also from my own perspective I don't see how it's expecting way too much for the community to use an AoE it's literally one button/OGCD that does more damage the more enemies you hit so to me it should be common sense.

[Cylla]

I ask to as well, but it just gets old when players who are like level 60 or 70, like you have been playing four that many levels and havent noticed how much slower adds die because you are single targeting them. Im horrible at math but how could someone not know they are spreading more damage from using aoe as opposed to single targeting.

Hey, to be honest. I'd rather have a newbie 60-70 that doesn't aoe over a 70 WHM that think a WAR is a PLD. Tell said WAR to put up sword oath (lol) and when said WAR has to use her last resort skill to stay alive (Holmgang) and doesn't get any heals, dropping dead to the ground and party wipe, said WAR is then being blamed for standing in three aoe's (because of Holmgang). Yeah... sad truth... I had one of these and I was so lived by the end that I asked to be vote kicked LOL Healer was so dumb that you couldn't even get it through her thick skull that one, I was WAR and not a PLD and that I couldn't move when Holmgang was active.

[dinnertime]

It's why I play BLM when I do expert roulette. I don't trust the other DPS to carry their weight and AoE.

I know it's painful to see--for example, a BLM not doing AoEs (Seriously, I've had a few BLMs that didn't AoE and the reason was because "it had less potency" and ignoring the fact that it's an AoE) but it's not a good reason to kick them just for that though. You should put that effort onto correcting them.

[Altena]

People who don't AoE need to learn to. I made a pretty extensive thread about this a few weeks ago.
Whenever I queue for a dungeon as a DPS I just play my best geared jobs. This is mostly so I can carry the weight if the other DPS is bad.

However in saying that - blind kicks are bad too.
Kicking someone without giving them a reason achieves nothing aside from shoving that person into the next queue for someone else to deal with - regardless what the reason is.

[KDSilver]

When you ask a monk to do aoe and she replies "I just want it 70 I don't want to play it optimally"
And you say that there's nothing optimal in the simple fact to just do aoe.
When she just keep doing single target rotation.

I wasn't trying to teach her how to play monk, teach her the rotation or anything.
Just to use aoe when there are severals mobs. But she thought I was trying to say she had to play monk well.

I think there's a misunderstanding beetween doing a good rotation and just doing aoes.
All classes aoe required no effort or understanding to do it. If it's written "aoe" on it, then it must be used when there's the opportunity to do it.
This isn't even being a jerk to think that, it's just... logical >_>