When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

[Shihen]

Only if someone has politely said something to them first and speaks for the rest of the group. Some people are cool with it, some aren't. Personally, the person's attitude is everything to me. If I kick someone for low numbers it's not because they aren't pulling their weight, it's because they're fine with other people pulling it for them.

[bswpayton]

Read the thread title and was not one bit surprised to find oit who the OP was.

How is this bait, this is a serious issue it seriously waste people's time. There are a number of pulls, that if dps single target it will cause wipes. Do u know how many good healers or good tanks have provably gotten blamed for screwing up when all along it was a lazy dps refusing to dps. This for me personally makes the game unfun at times because of ruining runs.

[Rokke]

Here's where I throw that claim out of the room: Jump potions. Even at 60+, they may have bought the story skip and level skip potions. As this point they're thrown in brand new, possibly their first MMO, with no idea what to do.

And I will still initiate a vote kick because I don't want to spend time carrying deadweights. If the majority feels the same way, it'll go through. If they don't, it wont. It works out pretty fair I think.

[TouchandFeel]

snip

All the reasons you listed for why someone may wantonly attempt to kick another player are separate from what I explicitly stated is the factor I take into account, whether or not they are even bothering to try. Even the statement you quoted explicitly says "the person that is not trying".

There are many subjective and potentially selfish reasons that I may not want a person in my group, such as I hate their glamour or I think they have a stupid name. While such may result in an eyeroll from me, it is never something I would ever consider fair game for a vote kick.

As you stated, harassment is a valid reason for a vote kick. When someone chooses to make things more difficult for others and to make the group's shared playtime less enjoyable, whether verbally or through their actions, or inaction in the case of not trying, I consider that harassment. Cussing someone out and intentionally wasting someone's time are both disrespectful.

It is also very obvious when someone isn't trying, but believing that people should be given the benefit of the doubt and to not assume immediate guilt, I always try to communicate first as I stated. How they respond makes it quite clear whether or not they are trying. A person that is trying will listen, ask questions or try to work with the team. A person that isn't trying tends to just gets belligerent or tells you to bugger off.

Really it's less about x player not playing y way and more about selfish jerks being selfish jerks and not giving a flying moogle turd about their effect on the group.

Vote kicking should pretty much never be the first option, but people should be held accountable for bad behaviour which includes choosing to make the group's run more difficult by not putting in any effort.

[KalinOrthos]

How is this bait, this is a serious issue it seriously waste people's time. There are a number of pulls, that if dps single target it will cause wipes. Do u know how many good healers or good tanks have provably gotten blamed for screwing up when all along it was a lazy dps refusing to dps. This for me personally makes the game unfun at times because of ruining runs.

Holy kupo, get over yourself. The only one making a stink about the possibility, just the possibility, of players not AoEing groups down is you. The only one making a stink about the possibility of a run possibly lasting a couple of minutes longer is you. This "problem" is purely made up, and it only exists in your head.

If a player is not AoEing, ask them to. If they give you crap about it, or actually harass you, then kick them. That's it. That's all there is to it.

[bswpayton]

I will only agree to kick toxic players. A dps not doing AoE is

I dont see what casual play has to do with anything exactly , even in a trial roullete ur required to do the mechanics are u die. In a casual dungeon , if the tank which I hear all the time sets the ton , then if you dont aoe ur going to cause three other people to wipe because u dont want to do the most basic parts of ur role.

Casual or not its just certain things u do are why are u even playing, would u argue that a monk should have grease lighting up as much as possible, or that a dragoon should use botd. Are that a healer only use cure one because its just a dungeon, or a tank not use any df cool downs just because its a dungeon , no u use that kinda game play when ur playing on ur own not when ur playing with other people.

[Kakiko]

As a somewhat new player, I find myself oftentimes forgetting about my AoE because it doesn't seem to do a whole lot of damage. I do remember it though, just not always right away, and some people I've run into really differ on whether they want you to use it or not. I've not used it, and been told to, and other times in similar situations I've been told not to use it. My ex-bf told me this weekend that if he pulls more than 3 I'm to use AoE and yet other times people have told me not unless there's more than 5. So, it's a bit confuzzling.

I will say that I'd 100% hate being kicked because I wasn't using AoE. At least tell me what you prefer and I'll do my best to accommodate that. Just don't wantonly kick me because I'm playing a way you don't like when I have no idea what you like.

[Avatre]

As a somewhat new player, I find myself oftentimes forgetting about my AoE because it doesn't seem to do a whole lot of damage. I do remember it though, just not always right away, and some people I've run into really differ on whether they want you to use it or not. I've not used it, and been told to, and other times in similar situations I've been told not to use it. My ex-bf told me this weekend that if he pulls more than 3 I'm to use AoE and yet other times people have told me not unless there's more than 5. So, it's a bit confuzzling.

That's the thing, different people feel using AoE after certain numbers of enemies is reached will always be different. For me personally, I tend to go with 5+ and I will AoE, once it drops below 5(and if stuff still has lots of HP), then I go for single target.

To be completely honest, while it is the tank/healers who typically decide on the pull size, they should also be able to adjust to fit what the party is capable/willing to do(within reason - flat out refusing to do something when asked NICELY to do so would be out of reasonable acceptance).

[Raven_Darkstar]

So, I haven't read the whole thread yet, wanted to go ahead and throw in my 2 cents first. If it's leveling content, no, a kick shouldn't be the first, go to option. Try communicating first. Then, if they're rude, refuse to listen, and if the party agrees with it, then kick.

Story time. Got a lovely example of a dps not aoeing and making things harder on everyone as a result. Did a second leveling roulette last night for the cracked cluster and to get the rust off my healing (been leveling blm Forever it seems lol).

Stone Vigil NM. Me - WHM, bf - DRG, two sprouts; PLD and NIN (tank was the newbie in the dungeon but both were probably alts; they knew the boss fights and pulls mostly, just got a little lost occasionally)

At first, it was the tank I was thinking wasn't very good. Squishy as hell, almost never using anything but Sword Oath. CDs? Well, conva and sometimes rampart, so at least some usage being seen there. And no I didn't say anything, for me to risk possible drama in a dungeon, the situation has to be pretty freaking dire. I just sucked it up and rolled with it. Tank pulled smallish for the most part, but some of those pulls in there, you just are not gonna get away with only 2 or 3 mobs.

Gradually, I started to notice - I'm not hearing the noise from NINs main aoe. I'm not seeing the mudra one either. So, no Death Blossom and no Katon. She may not have had DB yet (don't remember if she was above 41 or not), but Katon should have been seen at least once or twice per pull. But nope. No aoe. EVER. Her tp bar was over 90% full the whole dungeon. Things took forever to die.

Now think about this combo - dps stance tank and no aoe nin, with a drg who doesn't have much at that level, and a whm who doesn't have any of the tools available that would have made such a situation more tolerable. Oh, I did it, nobody died, but I did have to play a bit more agressively than I prefer to with such a squishy tank (if I didn't dot those mobs up and throw some rocks out, stuff was just not gonna die). And there was one very dicey pull before the last boss that got a bit bigger than this group should really have been dealing with - 5 aevis, plus one or two other things if I remember right.... yeah. I was all O.O. Use all the cds! ;P No, but seriously, I was having to use all my limited tools on cd, throughout. Largesse, Eye for an Eye, PoM, LD, and taking major advantage of those Free Cures.

Mission accomplished I guess, I no longer feel rusty on healer lol. The point is this, however; peyton's right. DPS not aoeing is a big problem, and to me? Stinks of lazy way more than it does ignorant. If the community as a whole stopped giving players like this a pass (yes, I'm guilty of it too), maybe our dfs would be more pleasant. Or at least not so full of aggravation.

[Aomine1992]

Lol everyone just play SMN end of argument no debate about tp or how no aoe is causing hour long dungeons (how some of u act) just everyone play SMN and bury this topic that pops up every couple weeks....If you don't like the dps not using aoe kick em but plan on kicking alot of Dps....So I suggest just grouping with your friends or posting pf asking for aoe dps only lol and say you did the math so it cannot lie