When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

[Serilda]

Personally I would just ask them, but I'm old fashioned like that. A lot of people level up solo or by playing very suboptimally because the game isn't very hard and even playing terribly works fine for 99% of dungeon situations. They might genuinely not know, or have forgotten about the useless AoE abilities they shoved on a secondary hotbar months ago. Or be traumatised by terrible tanks who lose AoE hate the moment someone throws out a Fire2.

If they're jerks about it, kick away.

The LB thing is annoying but not noticing it seems to be a weird debuff that affects the most appropriate LB user from time to time. I play in a group of friends and the same people always manage the LB yet I'm forever reminding them about it (and occasionally passive aggressively using it as healer just to demonstrate its existence) because of this strange selective blindness

[bswpayton]

Personally I would just ask them, but I'm old fashioned like that. A lot of people level up solo or by playing very suboptimally because the game isn't very hard and even playing terribly works fine for 99% of dungeon situations. They might genuinely not know, or have forgotten about the useless AoE abilities they shoved on a secondary hotbar months ago. Or be traumatised by terrible tanks who lose AoE hate the moment someone throws out a Fire2.

I ask to as well, but it just gets old when players who are like level 60 or 70, like you have been playing four that many levels and havent noticed how much slower adds die because you are single targeting them. Im horrible at math but how could someone not know they are spreading more damage from using aoe as opposed to single targeting.

[Cylla]

I ask to as well, but it just gets old when players who are like level 60 or 70, like you have been playing four that many levels and havent noticed how much slower adds die because you are single targeting them. Im horrible at math but how could someone not know they are spreading more damage from using aoe as opposed to single targeting.

Hey, to be honest. I'd rather have a newbie 60-70 that doesn't aoe over a 70 WHM that think a WAR is a PLD. Tell said WAR to put up sword oath (lol) and when said WAR has to use her last resort skill to stay alive (Holmgang) and doesn't get any heals, dropping dead to the ground and party wipe, said WAR is then being blamed for standing in three aoe's (because of Holmgang). Yeah... sad truth... I had one of these and I was so lived by the end that I asked to be vote kicked LOL Healer was so dumb that you couldn't even get it through her thick skull that one, I was WAR and not a PLD and that I couldn't move when Holmgang was active.

[bswpayton]

Hey, to be honest. I'd rather have a newbie 60-70 that doesn't aoe over a 70 WHM that think a WAR is a PLD. Tell said WAR to put up sword oath (lol)

for one , holmgang isnt a last resot skill it should be planed just like hg on big pulls not used when u have 25 percent health. If you know a mob is gona hit hard then you should use holmgang without u feeling like your about to die. Also warriors I agree are squishy imo but they have really good cool downs that are up every two mins. What tank you are really doesnt matter because they all can do dungeons just the same, but i mean on whm I literally barely have to heal because of benediction and temmargram however u spell it. But it seems like that whm wasnt using their skills well. But sorry for ur bad experience still doesnt change the fact dps should still aoe I dont see how the two even go together.

[Cylla]

for one , holmgang isnt a last resot skill it should be planed just like hg on big pulls not used when u have 25 percent health. If you know a mob is gona hit hard then you should use holmgang without u feeling like your about to die. Also warriors I agree are squishy imo but they have really good cool downs that are up every two mins. What tank you are really doesnt matter because they all can do dungeons just the same, but i mean on whm I literally barely have to heal because of benediction and temmargram however u spell it. But it seems like that whm wasnt using their skills well. But sorry for ur bad experience still doesnt change the fact dps should still aoe I dont see how the two even go together.

It actually was my last option. I had went through all my defense cool downs with still a handful of mobs on me before the 2nd boss in Bardam's Mettle. WHM 'thought' she could heal through it and demanded that I do big pulls. Mind you and I will admit, I was only in level 63 dungeon gear at the time and as squishy as warriors are..ohboy. I gave the benefit of the doubt since it was a WHM. At roughly 50% of my HP I holmgang in the hopes that I'd get a benediction, tetragrammaton, but nope. Not even Assize or Asylum were used. Just kept trying to spam cure II to keep me alive which didn't work. I main WHM also and I was just floored by how a 70 WHM didn't use anything but cure II. I don't even think there was even a regen popped on. And yes, what tank I am doesn't matter because Defiance is the same as Sword Oath but the fact that we tried to correct her in her errors and tell her what holmgang does she tried to grab at anything she could to put the blame on me. Irritating to say the least.

Point I'm making is, there dumber things/people that I find more irritating over people who don't AoE. Yes you're right, there is no excuse for people to not be doing AoE. Honestly, I see a pack of mobs and think, "Woohoo AoE happy time!" but guess some people don't have that mind set. The best you can do is ask/give advice for them to AoE or tell them that it'll help their dps/mobs die faster. Sure, you can vote kick them on this reason alone. GM's don't care because they hide behind the stance of 'different play style' so you have no worry about getting a slap on the wrist by a GM if reported for it. Unless maybe every one you vote kick report you for it, then a GM may look into it. But if you vote kick that person without saying a word, you're no better for vote kicking someone who may have actually listened to some advice.

And yes, I've had quite a lot of groups that I've gotten into where dps doesn't aoe. It stupid, there no reason for them not to be doing it but in most cases if I ask them to aoe or my dungeon partner says, "Hey, want to aoe?" they'll do it.

But I suppose we have different opinions on what the worst thing to get paired with in dungeons is but, both do go together. It boil down to new people not listening to advice or as I like to call them, 'newbie know it all' where they like to tell you how their going to play and you either deal with it or leave (or vote kick). I think if you're going to use vote kick for this reason - at least ask them a couple of times to AoE and if they don't want to listen or get nasty, well then suppose by all means if it bugs you that much hit the vote kick.

[Snow_Princess]

Hey, to be honest. I'd rather have a newbie 60-70 that doesn't aoe over a 70 WHM that think a WAR is a PLD. Tell said WAR to put up sword oath (lol) and when said WAR has to use her last resort skill to stay alive (Holmgang) and doesn't get any heals, dropping dead to the ground and partywipe, said WAR is then being blamed for standing in three aoe's (because of Holmgang). Yeah... sad truth... I had one of these and I was so lived by the end that I asked to be vote kicked LOL Healer was so dumb that you couldn't even get it through her thick skull that one, I was WAR and not a PLD and that I couldn't move when Holmgang was active.

That is a wrong bias to have. For a long time I can't tell names apart esp when I do not play the jobs. I know how to heal, and I know when a tank has too much damage so I may comment "shield oath" regardless who the tank was. (Now I learned the names a bit better from playing them, but the war stances are too alike for me to type out so I just say go tank stance when there is a need to)

So basically "I would rather have people know how to play their jobs over knowing the exact names of things"

rest what you said is fair though, cept holmagang being last resort, it can be used more freely when knowing they are pulling big.

[Cylla]

That is a wrong bias to have. For a long time I can't tell names apart esp when I do not play the jobs. I know how to heal, and I know when a tank has too much damage so I may comment "shield oath" regardless who the tank was. (Now I learned the names a bit better from playing them, but the war stances are too alike for me to type out so I just say go tank stance when there is a need to)

So basically "I would rather have people know how to play their jobs over knowing the exact names of things"

rest what you said is fair though, cept holmagang being last resort, it can be used more freely when knowing they are pulling big.

I just posted actually on this in more detail. I mean yes, I can say it wasn't my last resort option but it was all that I had left. Suppose no matter how I look at it as stated above, I was going to die because the healer wasn't using anything but cure II to try and keep me alive through a large pull.

Also I seriously think she honestly did not know the difference between the two jobs. Not a name issue. When I look at her lodestone she only had a 70 WHM. When she started going off about how I stood in three AoE, I tried to tell her, "Yes, because I had holmgang up and couldn't move." and when I said, "Now let do this my way and pull one pack of mobs at a time." she went into a fit and started saying, "Maybe you should put oath up." Yes, my Defiance was up 100% of the time. RDM in the group corrected her and said, "She's a WAR." "Maybe you should've used your defense cool downs." "I did, I went through all of them." It went back and forth until I finally just threw my hands up, stopped and said, "vote kick me. I'm not dealing with this anymore." We tried to explain it, she just wasn't getting it through her thick skull. So yes, to me having at least some knowledge of all jobs, at least your tanks as a healer would be nice.

*Small Edit - I will never claim to be a pro war, pld, or drk. I only tank dungeons and that as far as I'll go, or old content. But when I've cycled through all the cool down's I have and there nothing up but holmgang, that what I hit in the hopes that the healer would toss me a big heal and I could cycle back through my cool downs. Maybe this is a bad train of thought but it never failed me until that day.

[Snow_Princess]

I just posted actually on this in more detail. I mean yes, I can say it wasn't my last resort option but it was all that I had left. Suppose nomatter how I look at it as stated above, I was going to die because the healer wasn't using anything but cure II to try and keep me alive through a large pull.

Also I seriously think she honestly did not know the difference between the two jobs. Not a name issue. When I look at her lodestone she only had a 70 WHM. When she started going off about how I stood in three AoE, I tried to tell her, "Yes, because I had holmgang up and couldn't move." and when I said, "Now let do this my way and pull one pack of mobs at a time." she went into a fit and started saying, "Maybe you should put oath up." Yes, my Defiance was up 100% of the time. RDM in the group corrected her and said, "She's a WAR." "Maybe you should've used your defense cool downs." "I did, I went through all of them." It went back and forth until I finally just threw my hands up, stopped and said, "vote kick me. I'm not dealing with this anymore." We tried to explain it, she just wasn't getting it through her thick skull. So yes, to me having at least some knowledge of all jobs, at least your tanks as a healer would be nice.

*Small Edit - I will never claim to be a pro war, pld, or drk. I only tank dungeons and that as far as I'll go, or old content. But when I've cycled through all the cool down's I have and there nothing up but holmgang, that what I hit in the hopes that the healer would toss me a big heal and I could cycle back through my cool downs. Maybe this is a bad train of thought but it never failed me until that day.

lol, all i was saying is back when i was newer, i would say things like that (because i had pld leveled and played it and saying sword oath or shield oath is a lot simpler then the war equivalents. So I knew war and PLD was different, I just didn't know the ability names for war, so I would call out the PLD equivalent ones, like your healer did. Even now I can't spell out the war abilities too well and afraid I mix up the names so I just say tank stance.

Maybe the person in question did not know, but I did, my point is just don't have that bias.

That's basically what I'm saying. There are still single target skills you have to use. I may have made it sound more complicated. My point is, you still need to work in single target skills.

everyone here knows how to aoe .... I am sure people understand some jobs are not blm that only spam aoe things. Also bit shocked you said "wide volley" that was a big noob trap and I am sOOOOOOOOOOOO happy it was removed, helped the skill gap some.

[lulunami]

If you are doing high-end content like raids or trials, then you are justified with replacing under-performing members of your party. That is your prerogative.

However, for leveling content and simple dungeons, you can use that as a teaching opportunity. If they do not take your advice, so be it. Players are still learning how to play the game and should be given an opportunity to fail in order to learn. If they do not want to learn, well that is life. If your party really wants to replace that player, then that is their choice.

I do not agree with the culture of uncooperative, passive-aggressiveness that permeates the community at times.

[Andevom]

The LB thing is annoying but not noticing it seems to be a weird debuff that affects the most appropriate LB user from time to time. I play in a group of friends and the same people always manage the LB yet I'm forever reminding them about it (and occasionally passive aggressively using it as healer just to demonstrate its existence) because of this strange selective blindness

My problem is when I'm in a group with a caster, who I can just tell is waiting for that LB bar to fill so they can use it. If there's a melee DPS in the group, there's no reason to immediately fire off a Caster LB on a single target boss. Ever. But it happens all the time.