When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

[Naberrie]

For me it depends entirely on the pull (the size and what particular mobs are in the pull), the group and how the tank is holding hate, and what job I'm on at the time.

If I'm on SAM, I'm usually trying to keep up my speed and damage buffs while mixing in AOE, but those buffs are from single target skills, so no, I'm not AOEing 100% of the time on SAM (it's only 64; maybe that changes later).

On BRD I no longer have Flaming Arrow or Wide Volley, I can't spam Rain of Death, which leaves me with Quick Nock. With Tactician and Invigorate I can spam it for quite some time, but not forever, and there are times when there's a single target that needs to be focused down first. If the tank pulls something like that plus a huge amount of trash, I will focus down the one big mob that's likely to cause a problem first before I switch to Quick Nock. Plus I'm always trying to keep up my bites for the procs on songs, so I need to make sure I don't miss an Iron Jaws before the bites wear, or reapply to another mob.

On RDM I often use AOEs, particularly Scatter, but I also pay attention to my Ver procs so that I'm not losing the mana points for Enchanted attacks, one of which is a really nice AOE. Contre Sixte is great, but I can't spam it, and I've pulled hate using it too early, so I have to wait till the tank has established hate on the entire group.

It's situational. What job am I on? What's the pull? How is the tank holding hate? Is there a particular mob that needs to be focused? How's my TP? Are Invigorate or Tactician ready? I don't just blanket go in and spam AOE. I treat every pull differently and react to what the situation is. Just last night I was running Kugane in expert and the tank was struggling to keep hate, so I had to make adjustments to what I normally do. I look at the situation presented and ask myself, "What's the best approach for this fight?"

So should a player be using AOEs? Yes, absolutely. But, IMO, they also need to be mixing in other single target skills, depending on the job and the situation. But I would never kick someone for not using them. I would politely recommend it would increase their damage output. But if they refused, no, I wouldn't kick them. It's not something that would even remotely upset me. I'd shrug, adjust, and move on.

[AkashiXI]

On BRD I no longer have Flaming Arrow or Wide Volley, I can't spam Rain of Death, which leaves me with Quick Nock. With Tactician and Invigorate I can spam it for quite some time, but not forever, and there are times when there's a single target that needs to be focused down first. If the tank pulls something like that plus a huge amount of trash, I will focus down the one big mob that's likely to cause a problem first before I switch to Quick Nock. Plus I'm always trying to keep up my bites for the procs on songs, so I need to make sure I don't miss an Iron Jaws before the bites wear, or reapply to another mob.

It's not as complicated as you're making it seem, especially at 70. While the tank is gathering a big pull, Straight Shot -> Windbite every target you can, pop Mages Ballad after the third Windbite and spam Quick Volley after they're gathered. You will get a lot of Rain of Death procs with this method. After Mage wears you pop Army, and go back to spamming Quick Nock. If you're worried about the stronger enemies, place an additional dot on them for sidewinder, and focus your Barrage on them too. Simple stuff.

[Zarabeth]

Between jump potions and people leveling in potd or pvp, we now have a LOT of people who have no idea what to do in real dungeons. I usually ask them to use their aoe, if they don't, I'll ask the tank to slow down a bit. People need to get out of the HW mentality of speed run all the things. Just be decent and give tips nicely. Some will take the advice. Some wont. Adjust accordingly and don't let it bug you.

[HyoMinPark]

On BRD I no longer have Flaming Arrow or Wide Volley, I can't spam Rain of Death, which leaves me with Quick Nock. With Tactician and Invigorate I can spam it for quite some time, but not forever, and there are times when there's a single target that needs to be focused down first. If the tank pulls something like that plus a huge amount of trash, I will focus down the one big mob that's likely to cause a problem first before I switch to Quick Nock. Plus I'm always trying to keep up my bites for the procs on songs, so I need to make sure I don't miss an Iron Jaws before the bites wear, or reapply to another mob.

With regards to this, if the DPS is even semi-decent, a pack should be dead or near dead before your DoTs expire. With regards to Iron Jaws, unless you're going to get the benefit of at least 30~50% of the DoT duration, don't worry too much about refreshing each set of DoTs on individual mobs. Obviously, if they're taking longer, and you will get 15 seconds or more out of another IJ, IJ. But, if you're only going to get 5 seconds out of it? Don't Iron Jaws, and just focus them down with AOE.

While the tank is gathering, Straight Shot > Windbite 3~5 mobs > Caustic Bite one for Sidewinder > Mage's Ballad > Quick Nock/Rain of Death. Things will melt; you will be getting so many RoD procs, you won't know what to do with them. After Mage's is done, Army's Paeon > same thing: 3 mobs DoT'd, Quick Nock with 4 Repertoire stacks, weaving in your oGCDs (Rain of Death, Sidewinder, Empyreal Arrow). With Minuet, DoT 3~5 mobs, use Pitch Perfect at 2 stacks and oGCDs, weaving in Quick Nock/Rain of Death when its off CD. BRD AOE is extremely simple; don't overcomplicate it. Invigorate at 500~600 TP. Next large pull, use Tactician. If you are focusing down a larger threat, like, say the giant magitek thing in the second large pull after the second boss of Ala Mhigo, you can still weave in, at the least, Rain of Death, which is a higher potency overall over Bloodletter with at 2 or more mobs.

With other people contributing to AOE, as they should, things should die fairly quickly, before your DoTs expire and/or your song ends. TP shouldn't be an issue since it regens pretty quickly outside of combat.

[Naberrie]

It's not as complicated as you're making it seem, especially at 70. While the tank is gathering a big pull, Straight Shot -> Windbite every target you can, pop Mages Ballad after the third Windbite and spam Quick Volley after they're gathered. You will get a lot of Rain of Death procs with this method. After Mage wears you pop Army, and go back to spamming Quick Nock. If you're worried about the stronger enemies, place an additional dot on them for sidewinder, and focus your Barrage on them too. Simple stuff.

That's basically what I'm saying. There are still single target skills you have to use. I may have made it sound more complicated. My point is, you still need to work in single target skills.

[Snow_Princess]

I just posted actually on this in more detail. I mean yes, I can say it wasn't my last resort option but it was all that I had left. Suppose nomatter how I look at it as stated above, I was going to die because the healer wasn't using anything but cure II to try and keep me alive through a large pull.

Also I seriously think she honestly did not know the difference between the two jobs. Not a name issue. When I look at her lodestone she only had a 70 WHM. When she started going off about how I stood in three AoE, I tried to tell her, "Yes, because I had holmgang up and couldn't move." and when I said, "Now let do this my way and pull one pack of mobs at a time." she went into a fit and started saying, "Maybe you should put oath up." Yes, my Defiance was up 100% of the time. RDM in the group corrected her and said, "She's a WAR." "Maybe you should've used your defense cool downs." "I did, I went through all of them." It went back and forth until I finally just threw my hands up, stopped and said, "vote kick me. I'm not dealing with this anymore." We tried to explain it, she just wasn't getting it through her thick skull. So yes, to me having at least some knowledge of all jobs, at least your tanks as a healer would be nice.

*Small Edit - I will never claim to be a pro war, pld, or drk. I only tank dungeons and that as far as I'll go, or old content. But when I've cycled through all the cool down's I have and there nothing up but holmgang, that what I hit in the hopes that the healer would toss me a big heal and I could cycle back through my cool downs. Maybe this is a bad train of thought but it never failed me until that day.

lol, all i was saying is back when i was newer, i would say things like that (because i had pld leveled and played it and saying sword oath or shield oath is a lot simpler then the war equivalents. So I knew war and PLD was different, I just didn't know the ability names for war, so I would call out the PLD equivalent ones, like your healer did. Even now I can't spell out the war abilities too well and afraid I mix up the names so I just say tank stance.

Maybe the person in question did not know, but I did, my point is just don't have that bias.

That's basically what I'm saying. There are still single target skills you have to use. I may have made it sound more complicated. My point is, you still need to work in single target skills.

everyone here knows how to aoe .... I am sure people understand some jobs are not blm that only spam aoe things. Also bit shocked you said "wide volley" that was a big noob trap and I am sOOOOOOOOOOOO happy it was removed, helped the skill gap some.

[Zukissa]

Hello I came from a particular old school game where if you aoe'd you get kicked. Coming in to this game expecting to aoe and then a vote to be dismissed commences is pretty rude. With that said if you are unsatisfied with my dps'ing just make a sumple comment eg: When playing RDM just say scatter? or w/e and that's enough for me to go d'oh of course. Just don't insta kick.

[Khemorex]

Hello I came from a particular old school game where if you aoe'd you get kicked. Coming in to this game expecting to aoe and then a vote to be dismissed commences is pretty rude. With that said if you are unsatisfied with my dps'ing just make a sumple comment eg: When playing RDM just say scatter? or w/e and that's enough for me to go d'oh of course. Just don't insta kick.

mmmh well maybe we should ask the devs to make barriers everywhere and u will only be able to pull 3 mobs at once ^^

that should sort out the questions to aoe or not XD

[Bourne_Endeavor]

mmmh well maybe we should ask the devs to make barriers everywhere and u will only be able to pull 3 mobs at once ^^

that should sort out the questions to aoe or not XD

Do this and you'll need a whole lot more than Clusters to convince people to queue. I wouldn't touch roulettes again if forced to do baby pulls. Or rather, I would exclusively do pre-mades with three DPS and one tank/healer. You certainly wouldn't need both. The devs know this would happen, thus why they've only ever done partial gates and never locked out healer DPS.

AoEing is not difficult. As shown numerous times already, it's easier than your standard single target rotation. Some people are simply too lazy to be bothered doing beyond the bare minimum.

[HyoMinPark]

Hello I came from a particular old school game where if you aoe'd you get kicked. Coming in to this game expecting to aoe and then a vote to be dismissed commences is pretty rude. With that said if you are unsatisfied with my dps'ing just make a sumple comment eg: When playing RDM just say scatter? or w/e and that's enough for me to go d'oh of course. Just don't insta kick.

Most people have already stated in this thread that they would make a comment about why a DPS is refusing to AOE if they were to broach the subject--not just kick them without a word. The frequency of kicks that occur with very little prior communication are very far and few between (this is not to say they don't happen, but they are definitely rare).

mmmh well maybe we should ask the devs to make barriers everywhere and u will only be able to pull 3 mobs at once ^^

that should sort out the questions to aoe or not XD

I am with Bourne_Endeavor with this one. Dungeons in this game are already extremely easy and boring. Why make them easier and more boring? I would be far more less inclined to enter roulettes or dungeon content if they purposely put up a bunch of arbitrary barriers after each. and. every. pack. of. trash. At least when tanks pull large groups, it gives one something to do other than the same ol' single-target rotation. I love BRD, but Heavy Shot spamming can get a little dull. Weaving in Quick Nock/Rain of Death with my oGCDs? I much prefer that. It feels amazing to just make things melt.