When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

[HyoMinPark]

I think that SE should enforce the Japanese culture on the NA/EU servers. In that DF = you're there to win, and play serious (such as farming etc). Repeated negligence of this can get you permanently banned. So perfection is expected and anything short of perfection should be kicked. If you want to goof around, make a PF. Sure, it will have some people salty, but I think it'll stem most of the complaints.

SE cannot force any particular playstyle on the playerbase, and they know this. Hence why kicking individuals for a "difference in playstyles" is considered justifiable by the GMs and will go unpunished unless there is clear evidence in chat logs of planned abuse/harassment. SE trying to force a particular playstyle on any group of players would not go over well, and would just cause even more problems, I feel.

It really just boils down to people trying to be respectful towards each other and each other's time. And it goes both ways: lazy DPS need to be respectful of the group and use the right rotation at the right time, and party members need to be respectful and accommodating to people that are either new or not playing "up to par" via extending friendly, courteous advice and pointers.

[Paladinleeds]

SE cannot force any particular playstyle on the playerbase, and they know this. Hence why kicking individuals for a "difference in playstyles" is considered justifiable by the GMs and will go unpunished unless there is clear evidence in chat logs of planned abuse/harassment. SE trying to force a particular playstyle on any group of players would not go over well, and would just cause even more problems, I feel.

It really just boils down to people trying to be respectful towards each other and each other's time. And it goes both ways: lazy DPS need to be respectful of the group and use the right rotation at the right time, and party members need to be respectful and accommodating to people that are either new or not playing "up to par" via extending friendly, courteous advice and pointers.

I get that, however a lot of what I see, it just seems that the Japanese system would work better and cause less problems. Now, I'm sure if they updated the ToS and stuff, and rules, and alerted people to a change in the rules (letting them know continuing to play counts as accepting the new ToS), they absolutely could do it (assuming the rules don't allow them already). Now, the ethics of it are a whole other debate, which as you mention, could very well open another can of worms. Though I'd be interested to see it happen in all honesty.

I do try to be respectful at all times, and will listen to advice given to me in a supportive manner (so not a simple "[barrage of insults], do this", something like "Hey, this works better for this situation" or "Hey, have you considered this?"), but from what I see, it may well be required they do that. There's been a few rule changes that I vaguely remember because they realised the NA/EU culture is vastly different from the JP culture, and they realised they had to spell it out as a "This is against the rules, don't do it." - and yes my approach to giving advice is "Hey, have you considered x? It's more effective for the situation at hand because of y."

[Brill_]

It's just a game folks. Kicking people because their dps isn't close to the top 1% is dumb. Not everyone wants to be pro. They play the game to have fun. They are not interested in spending endless hours reading up on theorycrafting and practicing the perfect rotation on a training dummy.

[Hruodig]

It's just a game folks. Kicking people because their dps isn't close to the top 1% is dumb. Not everyone wants to be pro. They play the game to have fun. They are not interested in spending endless hours reading up on theorycrafting and practicing the perfect rotation on a training dummy.

This is one of the most tired, lifeless arguments I've ever read. No one's asking for top 1% dps, we're expecting some semblence of effort. Not using aoe abilities on trash mobs shows that you haven't bothered to look at all your abilities, or even try to understand how basic math works.

Fun? I play for fun too. Being good at the game is fun to me. This is not an argument. If it's fun for you to make a dungeon drag on because you're too lazy to aoe, you should probably find a different game to play.

[HyoMinPark]

It's just a game folks. Kicking people because their dps isn't close to the top 1% is dumb. Not everyone wants to be pro. They play the game to have fun. They are not interested in spending endless hours reading up on theorycrafting and practicing the perfect rotation on a training dummy.

Knowing to use AOE rotation in appropriate situations is not Top 1% Play.
AOEing a trash pack of 8-10 mobs is not Top 1% Play.
No one is saying they expect all DPS in Expert or Leveling Roulette to be 99th percentile.

[Awful]

It's just a game folks. Kicking people because their dps isn't close to the top 1% is dumb. Not everyone wants to be pro. They play the game to have fun. They are not interested in spending endless hours reading up on theorycrafting and practicing the perfect rotation on a training dummy.

I don't want super top tier DPS I want an actual DPS not someone who does 1-2-3 and spams 1 button, AFKing, not contributing if I wanted to undersize the dungeon with the 3 people who are pulling their weight I could or I could y'know, kick the AFK person and get a 4th. People want a team effort they never said they want the top tier crazy perfect DPS nor has it been requested in any of these threads.

[Brill_]

I don't want super top tier DPS I want an actual DPS not someone who does 1-2-3 and spams 1 button, AFKing, not contributing if I wanted to undersize the dungeon with the 3 people who are pulling their weight I could or I could y'know, kick the AFK person and get a 4th. People want a team effort they never said they want the top tier crazy perfect DPS nor has it been requested in any of these threads.

Sure they do. People want the fastest run possible, that means expecting everyone to put out max dps.

[Awful]

Sure they do. People want the fastest run possible, that means expecting everyone to put out max dps.

You don't need "the best" DPS to speed clear a dungeon you literally need: a group of 4 people who are all contributing to clear the dungeon by using all their abilities and their toolkits not someone who is half assing it and being AFK. Sure some do not gonna lie but the majority i.e people who are aware and who use DF regularly want a 4th body that isn't filling up a heart beat.

You can speed clear with 2 Mchs AoEing and a white mage and a Pld AoEing their hearts out VS a group who has a SMN, White mage, Pld, and a Blm where the Blm and summoner aren't AoEing and the white mage is spamming Holy making up for 2 of those DPS who could be AoEing but choose not to along with the Pld doing their AoE. What group is gonna be faster? The group that's more active.

That's the argument being made no one is expecting super fast top tier raid DPS they want people to contribute and benefit the group.

[Elkanah]

snip

If you want competency, get 3 other players to go with you in the future. Otherwise, you're expecting WAY too much of the community. Everyone plays this game for many and different reasons. Some to get away and enjoy what they play, and some of us (raiders) who have end goals and achieving higher progressive content. But in no way, shape or form is it justified to kick a player just because YOU decide what should be beneficial to the group. I'm not saying you're wrong on the problem, but kicking players because they're not doing what you and the group is asking is toxic to the group and you're part of the problem (not you, but the player kicking said player for those reasons).

Players being offline, harassing others and saying things that aren't necessary, are kick-able offense. If you have an aoe player in the group like blm or rdm and they're doing their job, resume your normal routine with the party. Again, if you really want someone to do what you need to, to get a dungeon cleared, it's smarter to bring 3 others who have the same understanding and mutual agreement. Don't expect the thousands and thousands of players to be on the same bed of dreams and goals. Anything outside of raid endgame should not be kicked without legitimate reasons.

If in raid and they're under performing, then yes, you have every right to kick them, as endgame is not a piece of content meant for casual players who want to "have fun and play the game". You do that on normal raids and other content in the game.

[Riko_Futatabi]

I understand that what's draining you is the repetitiveness of having to reprimand players continually. And this it seems has almost "broke" you and what seems to be your patient nature.

Understand that it is often easy to generalize a group of players such as "Melee DPS" like they are repeatedly doing wrong(almost like they are a single entity), where in fact, you are coming across different individuals time and again that are doing wrong. Think of a teacher in a class, many times they've seen pupils do wrong, year after year. Would that teacher just kick pupils out of the class for not understanding something? A good teacher wouldn't that's for sure! A lot of individuals play this game and many play it well. Everyone's a teacher to some degree or another. Humans are wired to problem solve, when something is wrong we notice it above all else. It's why you see many forums that seem overly negative because most of the time people go to a forum when something is wrong and they want to fix it. Meanwhile, people that are without problems are playing away contently.

Anyway my point is that kicking is the easy way to solve a problem, but don't give in to that slippery slope which can end up changing yourself for the worse and possibly even the person you kicked! They might learn something, but it likely won't be what you wanted them to learn.