When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

[TouchandFeel]

I don't see why it's such a bad thing to expect people to put in adequate team effort when it comes to clearing content. Even if it's "Just DF." Any party member being lazy is not putting in team effort, and if the team doesn't want them in the party, they are justified to kick and replace if majority rules.

Exactly! It honestly boggles my mind that this is even under any form of debate.

Being considerate of the other people you signed up to team with and to try to act in the best interests of the team should be the default, not a "go make a pf group" or "lol, stop being so elitist it's just a game" situation. That's just simply how teamwork functions and if you don't want to work with the team it shouldn't be any surprise if the team doesn't want to work with you either.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

As a somewhat new player, I find myself oftentimes forgetting about my AoE because it doesn't seem to do a whole lot of damage. I do remember it though, just not always right away, and some people I've run into really differ on whether they want you to use it or not. I've not used it, and been told to, and other times in similar situations I've been told not to use it. My ex-bf told me this weekend that if he pulls more than 3 I'm to use AoE and yet other times people have told me not unless there's more than 5. So, it's a bit confuzzling.

I will say that I'd 100% hate being kicked because I wasn't using AoE. At least tell me what you prefer and I'll do my best to accommodate that. Just don't wantonly kick me because I'm playing a way you don't like when I have no idea what you like.

It depends on the job. Melee generally single target if 1-3 mobs. Anything beyond that and you aoe. Just five mobs and you will double your overall damage. Potency numbers are deceiving at times. For casters, I believe your BF is correct, though I don't play casters to say for certain.

As for being kicked. I wouldn't unless the person was being obstinate, especially in lower level dungeons where everything melts nowadays. 61-70 mega pulls though will kill the tank if the DPS aren't aoeing. They simply won't have the CDs to survive the outgoing damage.

No. Please stop the "my way is the only way and any other way is the stupid ass retarded lazy loser way" nonsense. The world does not revolve around you. Stop trying to shape the DF. It doesn't work.

It's been said over and over, and I'm going to say it again: if you want group content to go a specific way, use the Party Finder.

Like Hyomin said, this can be applied towards you. If you want a leisure, stress free dungeon, make a PF. "The world does not revolve around you."

Duty Finder exists solely to randomly pair four players together. Afterwards, they determine how the run proceeds entirely at their own discretion.

[AngaratoSvartberg]

I only kick people if theyre a toxic idiot or if they make it impossible to finish the dungeon. like a healer that dies on every boss cause they refuse to move out of aoe or such poor dps that we can't make it. then still im pretty patient. you cant expect anything more than that in a dutyfinder.

in a PF clear group tho you can be a lot more strict. but try to give some constructive feedback and stay relaxed. if they are really to dumb to learn then just remove them without being a toxic idiot about it. those people arent worth your time.

[Paladinleeds]

I think that SE should enforce the Japanese culture on the NA/EU servers. In that DF = you're there to win, and play serious (such as farming etc). Repeated negligence of this can get you permanently banned. So perfection is expected and anything short of perfection should be kicked. If you want to goof around, make a PF. Sure, it will have some people salty, but I think it'll stem most of the complaints.

[HyoMinPark]

I think that SE should enforce the Japanese culture on the NA/EU servers. In that DF = you're there to win, and play serious (such as farming etc). Repeated negligence of this can get you permanently banned. So perfection is expected and anything short of perfection should be kicked. If you want to goof around, make a PF. Sure, it will have some people salty, but I think it'll stem most of the complaints.

SE cannot force any particular playstyle on the playerbase, and they know this. Hence why kicking individuals for a "difference in playstyles" is considered justifiable by the GMs and will go unpunished unless there is clear evidence in chat logs of planned abuse/harassment. SE trying to force a particular playstyle on any group of players would not go over well, and would just cause even more problems, I feel.

It really just boils down to people trying to be respectful towards each other and each other's time. And it goes both ways: lazy DPS need to be respectful of the group and use the right rotation at the right time, and party members need to be respectful and accommodating to people that are either new or not playing "up to par" via extending friendly, courteous advice and pointers.

[Paladinleeds]

SE cannot force any particular playstyle on the playerbase, and they know this. Hence why kicking individuals for a "difference in playstyles" is considered justifiable by the GMs and will go unpunished unless there is clear evidence in chat logs of planned abuse/harassment. SE trying to force a particular playstyle on any group of players would not go over well, and would just cause even more problems, I feel.

It really just boils down to people trying to be respectful towards each other and each other's time. And it goes both ways: lazy DPS need to be respectful of the group and use the right rotation at the right time, and party members need to be respectful and accommodating to people that are either new or not playing "up to par" via extending friendly, courteous advice and pointers.

I get that, however a lot of what I see, it just seems that the Japanese system would work better and cause less problems. Now, I'm sure if they updated the ToS and stuff, and rules, and alerted people to a change in the rules (letting them know continuing to play counts as accepting the new ToS), they absolutely could do it (assuming the rules don't allow them already). Now, the ethics of it are a whole other debate, which as you mention, could very well open another can of worms. Though I'd be interested to see it happen in all honesty.

I do try to be respectful at all times, and will listen to advice given to me in a supportive manner (so not a simple "[barrage of insults], do this", something like "Hey, this works better for this situation" or "Hey, have you considered this?"), but from what I see, it may well be required they do that. There's been a few rule changes that I vaguely remember because they realised the NA/EU culture is vastly different from the JP culture, and they realised they had to spell it out as a "This is against the rules, don't do it." - and yes my approach to giving advice is "Hey, have you considered x? It's more effective for the situation at hand because of y."

[Hruodig]

Like Hyomin said, this can be applied towards you. If you want a leisure, stress free dungeon, make a PF. "The world does not revolve around you."

Lmao, I have to wonder what this even looks like. I guess 0 dps healer? Pld spamming flash/rage of halone? Dpses not aoeing (obviously), doing bare-minimum rotations? How long would that even take?

[Brill_]

It's just a game folks. Kicking people because their dps isn't close to the top 1% is dumb. Not everyone wants to be pro. They play the game to have fun. They are not interested in spending endless hours reading up on theorycrafting and practicing the perfect rotation on a training dummy.

[Hruodig]

It's just a game folks. Kicking people because their dps isn't close to the top 1% is dumb. Not everyone wants to be pro. They play the game to have fun. They are not interested in spending endless hours reading up on theorycrafting and practicing the perfect rotation on a training dummy.

This is one of the most tired, lifeless arguments I've ever read. No one's asking for top 1% dps, we're expecting some semblence of effort. Not using aoe abilities on trash mobs shows that you haven't bothered to look at all your abilities, or even try to understand how basic math works.

Fun? I play for fun too. Being good at the game is fun to me. This is not an argument. If it's fun for you to make a dungeon drag on because you're too lazy to aoe, you should probably find a different game to play.

[ErryK]

It's been said over and over, and I'm going to say it again: if you want group content to go a specific way, use the Party Finder.

It's not really wanting group content to go a specific way to ask someone to read their tooltips...