Using AST's Expand in Light Party Duties

[Kyeria]

While Expanded has reduced potency and is less effective than Extended in Light Parties, all I have to say is this; Using any buff is better than doing nothing and hoarding cards for 3 minutes trying to get the perfect setup to last for 30 seconds. I cannot tell you how many Astrologians I've played with that go through 3-6 waves of enemies not using cards because they only want Extended Balance. That's honestly, what I call a bad Astrologian.

Obviously, I don't recommend throwing an expanded Spire/Ewer due to the useless nature of the cards, but if you've shuffled and it's all you got I don't see it as being a "Bad" Ast to buff the team when you can.
Now, if you're intentionally storing terrible cards that's a different story...

[Arrius]

There is nothing wrong with expanded balance and so forth, even in light parties. Well, unless one DPS is 5k and the other is 1k. But if they're close enough, and tank and healer and DPSing, it's still a good gain. And even if there is a large disparity, sometimes you just have to roll with what RNGsus gives you.

Or you actually play them out properly and pick favorites. Some observation is required, but once you know who performs better, you know who gets card priority (depending on the damage role, of course) since you want to have your cards used for maximum effect.

While Expanded has reduced potency and is less effective than Extended in Light Parties, all I have to say is this; Using any buff is better than doing nothing and hoarding cards for 3 minutes trying to get the perfect setup to last for 30 seconds. I cannot tell you how many Astrologians I've played with that go through 3-6 waves of enemies not using cards because they only want Extended Balance. That's honestly, what I call a bad Astrologian.

This is about people using Expand in light parties, not about 'lazy' Astrologians or ones that look for the perfect draw card combo. I only wonder about the obsession of burning Spire, while discarding it is a much better option 95%+ of the time.

[Risvertasashi]

Or you actually play them out properly and pick favorites. Some observation is required, but once you know who performs better, you know who gets card priority (depending on the damage role, of course) since you want to have your cards used for maximum effect.

Sometimes RNG won't play nice. Yes, with all the RNG mitigation AST has gotten, a lot of the time you can move things around and end up with a strengthened/extended single-target DPS buff. Nonetheless, it's still RNG, and sometimes it doesn't play nice.

Expanded is not so horrible it should never be used. Especially if everyone in the party is contributing at a close to equal level, but even if not, it's better than minutes of no buffs when RNG doesn't play out the way you want.

[Arrius]

Expanded is not so horrible it should never be used. Especially if everyone in the party is contributing at a close to equal level, but even if not, it's better than minutes of no buffs when RNG doesn't play out the way you want.

But ... you discard spire and ewer exactly for the said reasons. There are of close to no use for anyone, so convert them into a minor arcana or free up the space for the draw cooldown to appear or to perform a Sleeve Draw. When you get a card that benefits the DPS, you play it out instantly or bank it when the trash group is nearly cleared.

[Kyeria]

Snip

I think you missed the entire point of my post. Quite a few people in this thread alone have called AST's who use Expanded in 4 mans bad, which is why my explanation touched on that level of play as well as explaining why some people may use Expanded.

I guess I can go more into detail though...

"Why do some people use Expanded?"

Q: "Why do people use Expanded in 4 Mans!?"
A: If you've drawn a card and shuffled and it's all you have, using the buff is better than doing nothing. Contrary to popular belief, using any buff benefits the progression of the party more than going through 3 minutes/6 waves of enemies doing nothing, because you didn't get the card you "wanted".

Q: "Don't RR Ewer/Spire in 4 mans! Use Minor Arcana!"
A: Well, depending on the dungeon you may not even have the ability unlocked, but let's play devil's advocate and assume you do, there's still a possibility that you already have an Arcana Card stored. In this event, RR/Using the card it is still better than doing nothing if you've shuffled and it's all the RNG gods have given you.

Do I think Ewer & Spire are awful? Yes, but I still fall back on my original post.
I'd rather see someone RR Ewer & Spire and use ANY card than do absolutely nothing.

[Arrius]

I think you missed the entire point of my post. Quite a few people in this thread alone have called AST's who use Expanded in 4 mans bad, which is why my explanation touched on that level of play as well as explaining why some people may use Expanded.

I guess I can go more into detail though...

"Why do some people use Expanded?"

Q: "Why do people use Expanded in 4 Mans!?"
A: If you've drawn a card and shuffled and it's all you have, using the buff is better than doing nothing. Contrary to popular belief, using any buff benefits the progression of the party more than going through 3 minutes/6 waves of enemies doing nothing, because you didn't get the card you "wanted".

Yet you still need a different card to play it out, and by the time you draw a better one, it's usually more useful to apply the buff single-target. That's what I mean.
And don't get tell me you use Expand Spires and Ewer, that's just sad.

Hmm, isn't it similar to use expand when compared to using any of the other RR?

Typical party damage output (actually on the low side because healer is AST T_T): DPS = 100% healer/tank = 50%
So DPS does 1 damage and tank and healer does 0.5

Using Balance:
With Expand you have 1.05+1.05+0.525+0.525=3.15
With Enhanced you have 1.15+1+0.5+0.5 = 3.15
With Extend there is no point because you are using up a spear or arrow for it

I don't see much difference of using any of the 3 RR so on average it should be best to burn all spire/ewer if you ever hit one on redraw because dropping it is just a wasted card.

You can talk about times when 1 dps does a significant amount more damage than another but thats all guess work and it is still only a minor difference. At least I don't believe the difference is big enough to call someone lazy or bad.

That's purely based on wishful thinking that each one of the member has a 100% damage uptime, which will never happen. Everyone has to dodge, healers have to heal, tanks have to reposition. The DPS have the least problems with that, since either they got gapclosers to get back to the boss instantly, can continue to dps right after stepping out of the aoe without a need for respositioning (casters) or aren't affected by movement at all (bards and mechanics).

You also can't tell me that applying Spear with Expand is a equal improvement than just giving it to the Bard, which we know they really get a kick out of extra crit compared to anyone else. Or that you use Expand Bole while the tank only takes damage.

And to top it off - Sometimes you 'miss' people with Expand and buff maybe only half the group due to positioning.

[SleepyNeko]

Snop

Might be wishful but I'm talking about the duration of the whole fight, on average, in the duration of the whole fight, tank/healer can do around 50% to 66% damage of what a dps can do so even if there is movement and healing, it is still that same percentage.

I don't think you can straight compare putting 1 spear on a dps vs a tank, because we are talking about expand which is 1 vs 4. My number are very general because we are talking about 4 man content.

Also I'm strictly talking about expand on spear/arrow/balance only, not bole/ewer/spire (already assuming that I'm RR all the ewer and spire so very low chance to Expand those two). And if we are talking about down time on dps (due to mechanics) then that is the same regardless of what card you use.

Just my personal opinion that there is no need to min/max on a simple 4 man dungeon to the point where you have to drop 2/6 cards (3/6 if you include bole).