Increasing xp gained by dps classes in leveling dungeons

[Dzian]

This would at least make up for the discrepancy in queue times, putting the leveling ability on par with tanks and healers.

I know there are lots of ways to level dps classes outside of dungeons, but the game is basically dungeon based. Using other leveling methods effectively hampers dps skill set at end game.

Thoughts?

All you'd do then is push people away from tanks and healers even more. because if it takes a dps 2 runs of doma castle to get from 65-67. but takes a tank 4 runs.. to get the same 2 levels how is that remotely fair...
The result is even less people are going to play tanks / healers because it's twice as much work for the same amount of experience.

You want to encourage people to play tanks and healers not push them away from it by giving them less rewards than if they went as a dps..

A better idea that has been suggested a lot in one form or another is make the AIN rewards exp scrolls / items (kinda like mimatettes memoires if you played XI)make those scrolls the equivelant of 15-20% of a level each they need to scale as you go level up.
a static exp reward wouldn't work. 250k exp is a lot at 45 but it's nothing at 65... so it needs to scale. so at 69 for example one of them scrolls might be over 2 million exp.

This then allows players to queue as whatever AIN is which benefits queue times for everyone but it also still allows level there desired jobs.
Something like this also has the advantage of being incredibly simple to implement. there's next to no work or coding involved that doesn't already exist within the game. so the resources required to put it in place would be almost zero.

It's a much better solution than trying to rebalance all content around 5-6 man light parties or 10-12 man full parties...

The end result would be significantly faster queues for every single player. even the DPS players that didn't want to play as AIN. why??

Because if you have 50 players in the dps queue for levelling roulette for example. and youre #50 lets say, your queue times are typically going to be quite long.

If you added the scrolls or something similar. Then even if only 10 of those 50 players in the queue decided to queue as AIN and use the reward scroll instead of getting direct exp. Those 10 people would then also take another 20 dps out of the queue with them,
thus slashing the dps queue times and size by almost 60% even for the players sat at the back..

What this means is that guy who was joined a queue at number 50 or higher. might find he's typically joining queues around position 20 in the queue and is going to get a group that much faster.

If you do something like this and EVERYONE wins. and I mean everyone. there's isn't a player in the game who would not benefit in some way.

A:- players who want to level a dps quickly can queue as AIN and take advantage of near instant queues. while still being able to get decent progress on there dps job.

B:- players who want to play as only DPS and not willing to play as AIN will also level faster because queue times will be shorter as a result of A.

C:- By tying the reward to AIN you could connect it to all roulettes not just levelling which in turn could result in a huge reduction in queue times across most of the game for everyone. even the antisocial guy who has no friends or social connections..

There would be no losers..

If you want to improve things that's how you do it. You incentivise people to play AIN, because the more people that do that the shorter the queues get for everyone else. You do not punish the less desirable rolls with lower exp/tomes rewards. all that does is push people away from those roles

I really don't know what more they can do about DPS ques. There are always going to be more DPS than Tanks and Healers. They've already implemented a number of incentives to encourage more Tanks and Healers

What they can do is give players something that actually need. If players are queuing levelling as a dps it's because they want to level a dps. The only thing they need is exp.

Cracked clusters and stuff helped a few but the issue there is a lot of the t6 materia is currently worthless and were at a point where people who do meld are already melded so simply don't need it. I think that's why the levelling queues have gone way back up to almost hour long in some cases. because people don't need cracked clusters.

Players want or need exp and that's why they are all queuing fps jobs. My paladin got to 70 and hasn't touched a roulette since because what I need is exp. And I can't get that as a 70 paladin. So I presently queue as a65 black mage. after that maybe ill queue as bard or monk. so my paladin still wont be used for roulettes... that's the problem..

If I could get exp for black mage playing AIN then I'd queue paladin and take 2 more fps out of the queue in the process. That's 3 people less in the queue straight away. Just from 1 person making a change. That might have made everyone else queue 2 mins shorter.

That's what they need to fix if they really want to improve queue times. Give players who are willing to play AIN a means to get exp because exp is why they are in the queue in the first place

[Snow_Princess]

Indeed, I remember with Heavenswards (the first 3-4 months) the queue for DPS was pretty fast, because people were exploring the new healer and tank classes. I understand that most Dark Knight were played by Warrior's or Paladin's, but leveling those classes, helped DPS players enter the instance alot sooner.

Two new DPS classes was a mistake, I hope the next expansion adds new tanks and healer classes.

I do agree with that but the issue is balance, they can't even balance healers or tanks between them when it is 3/3. I am guessing it is why they just did 2 new dps because they know they have issues balancing healer and tank jobs. They also intentionally made rdm and sam on the stronger side of things, so if they did that with healer and tank, it would cause issues for high end stuff and make it too weak you are just repeating hw, 3.0

[FaileExperiment]

Indeed, I remember with Heavenswards (the first 3-4 months) the queue for DPS was pretty fast, because people were exploring the new healer and tank classes. I understand that most Dark Knight were played by Warrior's or Paladin's, but leveling those classes, helped DPS players enter the instance alot sooner.

Two new DPS classes was a mistake, I hope the next expansion adds new tanks and healer classes.

But after those 3-4 months, DPS queues went back to about what they are now. Adding tanks and healers only led to a temporary boost. Had SB included them, at this point in the timeline, we'd be no different than we are now. I don't think giving incentive's to playing a healer/tank role is the answer, as they already have plenty of that and it clearly hasn't worked. Tanks play tanks because that's what they want to do, incentives only work temporarily.

The fixes to queue times should really center around fixing the fundamental core role issues with Tanks and Healers. And with that, I mean they should both be as stress-free and smooth to play as any DPS. In the mean time, increasing xp per time spent in the queue would help alleviate the DPS queue tax .

[Zojha]

You want to encourage people to play tanks and healers not push them away from it by giving them less rewards than if they went as a dps..

Actually, you should want to neither encourage nor discourage anyone from playing a particular role - You should simply want to empower people to play whatever they prefer without repercussions.

In that, XP scrolls are fairly pointless. It's just another reward you throw at people that will completely lose all value the moment they got what they wanted, like Seals, like Cracked Clusters, like Tomes, like Gil, like any other material reward. Moreover, it's a pointless reward unless you level jobs for completion sake - If you level a job to actually PLAY it, because it seems FUN, not playing it defeats the purpose of leveling it - That person isn't going to forever queue as a different job than the one they actually want to play. And what's even worse, it does nothing for non-leveling roulette queue times, so even if these people tank and heal their way to 70, they're suddenly hit by a queue wall anyway.

It's a temporary measure to fix a permanent issue and an incomplete one at that. I grant you that it's "easy" - Because it's a bandaid. And bandaids are fine to tide people over while you're working on an actual fix - They cannot and should not replace the actual fix however.

[Doki]

I think this idea is stupid. It honestly takes very little time to level, regardless of queue times. I have leveled literally every battle class to 70, and never had much longer than a 30 minute wait to enter a roulette, and usually half that for my level appropriate SB dungeon. I always used the time waiting on queue doing the daily hunts in SB zones, and any exp bonus fates I found along my path. I usually would finish my daily hunts after the 3rd roulette for the day. Even at a casual pace of leveling solely on daily roulettes/hunts and a few fates each day, I averaged getting at least one job from 60 to 70 each week, and I still capped my main's tomes each week as well with expert roulette. Asking for easier xp is just lazy. By the time 4.1 hits I'll probably be finished with finishing off my crafts to 70, and then all that is left is endgame raids which are rarely worth the diminishing returns for time invested.

Out of all the bottlenecks in the game, not earning xp fast enough is definitely not one of them.

[FaileExperiment]

I think this idea is stupid. It honestly takes very little time to level, regardless of queue times. I have leveled literally every battle class to 70 blah blah blah

This thread isn't about the ease or difficulty of leveling in general, it's about equalizing the xp gain for all roles from roulette's over a given time period, adjusting for time spent in queue. So yeah, you find it easy to level. Here's a cookie, but you're off-topic.

[Snow_Princess]

This thread isn't about the ease or difficulty of leveling in general, it's about equalizing the xp gain for all roles from roulette's over a given time period, adjusting for time spent in queue. So yeah, you find it easy to level. Here's a cookie, but you're off-topic.

Then how do you propose to make things fair? Because the suggestion presented in this thread does more harm then good and I only seen one comment on that fact. Basically by giving DPS extra exp gain, you are just encouraging more people to level dps, to make the deficit worse.

Also DPS do have equal gain for tanks and healers, its called make a friend, just one, only requires one person, and level with them, like me and my friend do, switching off who does DPS and who does tank/healer

[Dzian]

If you level a job to actually PLAY it, because it seems FUN, not playing it defeats the purpose of leveling it - That person isn't going to forever queue as a different job than the one they actually want to play.

many would. the whole reason people rush through levelling jobs is because you don't really play the jobs until your capped. people just wanna level them as quick as possible and actually use them at 70. that's why potd was run so much. because you never really played your job there no fight ever lasted long enough. but its the quickest road to 60....

that's why people don't invest in gear or stuff while levelling because its just another hurdle that can be skipped. only when people hit cap do they start to actually think about gearing up decently..

no one finds running through a level 28dungeon levelling roulette particularly fun when theyre 60+ they just do the daily roulette to get the exp as fast as possible...

the levelling part is seen by many as a chore more than actually playing the job..

with that said exp scrolls would work well. even if only a small amount of players made use of them. it was have a largely positive affect on overall queue times.. lets say 1 in 10 dps made use of the scrolls. that would pull 3 people out the dps queues and shrink the queues by about 1/3

pretty significant reduction for everyone.

And what's even worse, it does nothing for non-leveling roulette queue times, so even if these people tank and heal their way to 70, they're suddenly hit by a queue wall anyway. .

that's exactly why I tied it to AIN. doing that it could be implemented across all roulettes. save maybe expert. (the only one people never do for exp)

It's a lot more than a simple band aid fix. it could have a very positive impact in the long term. even in future expansions.

the only issue is when people have every job capped. but generally speaking those people stop queuing for most of the roulettes anyway at that point the only one that matters and is worth doing is expert.

the real problem is AIN. it's purpose is to encourage players to fill needed roles but players simply don't touch it. all duty finder queue problems come from that.. adding a 3rd or 4th dps wont change that at all because players still wont role as AIN and thus queue times will still be bad.

If you fix the AIN system and make players actually want to use it.. You will reduce queue times for everyone that uses duty finder. and to make players want to use it you have to give them something they want. and with roulettes the main thinkg people want is EXP

[FaileExperiment]

Then how do you propose to make things fair? Because the suggestion presented in this thread does more harm then good and I only seen one comment on that fact. Basically by giving DPS extra exp gain, you are just encouraging more people to level dps, to make the deficit worse.

Also DPS do have equal gain for tanks and healers, its called make a friend, just one, only requires one person, and level with them, like me and my friend do, switching off who does DPS and who does tank/healer

The idea is xp gain per time spent in queue. In that metric, it's not equal. In addition, I don't see the harm argument being very convincing. If someone likes playing tank or healer, they aren't likely to switch just because DPS are compensated for time spent in queue. If that were true we'd also see people playing tank/healer just to get the "role in need" xp/gil bonus, which I don't think you can say has really happened with a straight face.

[Chocolys]

This thread isn't about the ease or difficulty of leveling in general, it's about equalizing the xp gain for all roles from roulette's over a given time period, adjusting for time spent in queue. So yeah, you find it easy to level. Here's a cookie, but you're off-topic.

But you're argument is missing a point. "Time period" is not the only factor involved in earning EXP. To earn EXP you have to actually defeat bosses and monsters.

With the proposed solution, Tanks and healers would have to do more dungeons and defeat more monsters and bosses than DPS to earn the same EXP than a DPS would do in a single dungeon. That does not sound fair either.

As Doki said, you can earn good exp doing Fates, Tribe quests and daily hunts while waiting for the duty to pop.

The only problem for me with the long DPS queue, is for people who have limited play time, and it's not about EXP or Roulettes, but it's about dungeon completion to progress in the game content. That's more of an annoying issue. ( Maybe the new "squadron in dungeon" feature might help in that regard for old content.)
Strictly speaking about EXP, the game provides enough means to level a DPS comfortably.