Stats for SB?

[Caimie_Tsukino]

SNIP

I can understand your refusal to use macros. May I suggest the following rotation?

I have entered your stats above, and assuming the use of NQ tempura... It's really just for the CP. Don't really need the extra craftsmanship, as you still have 25 durab left after the above rotation is performed anyway. So you could potentially use like 6x CS II to replace the 3x CS III (and it'll save some CP too).

If you're level 66 or above, it's definitely better to use Manipulation II and Prudent Touch rather than sticking to the old Waste Not or Master's Mend II [MM2] (Master's Mend [MM] is actually the least CP-efficient skill for durab recovery, I would suggest not to use it unless you're overpowering a recipe with stats).

[Caimie_Tsukino]

4 star 60 is comparable to no star 68-70. That was the point I was trying to make. When we get 4 star 70 it will be a no star 78-80 level recipe, we will need to do it with over meld 70 though. It's why people can level from expansion end game to expansion end game and never gear.

You're right that the quality bar of a 4 star lvl 60 item is as long as the quality bar of a no star lvl 70 item (13187 quality). But the progress bar of the 4 star 60 is only comparable to that of a level 63 recipe (1968 progress for level 63 recipe, instead of 2952 for level 70 recipe). Although, Heavensward items have only 70 durab instead of 80 durab. So that does contribute to some extra difficulty. (level 63 recipes have 10439 quality to push only)

[Ksenia]

I see where the confusion is. With no food, my stats are 1211, 1114, 400. (Those are no meld stats for HQ 290 - All I have are some CP melds right now)

The 1347 came from HQ steamed Grouper. (HQ steamed Grouper gives you 136 Craft and 20 CP) I've tested all 3 HQ foods at 70. Tempura Platter, Warriors Stew and Steamed Grouper and keep stacks of each. As well as old stacks of Seafood Stew and Baked Onion soup.

I still think your Rotation would work with or without that extra craft from food. That's a 10 IQ BB and would very likely get a 70 1 star to 100% quality. We can't just look at the face value of the star recipes though. We seem to take substantial penalty when doing them.

If you look at the Steamed Grouper, it has a 2952 Difficulty. The Persimmon Sushi is only 3149. That's really not that much on paper but there is a deception there because it's a whole other game. Without Ingenuity II it's pretty much impossible to finish. They use a different math with star stuff.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

I still think your Rotation would work with or without that extra craft from food. That's a 10 IQ BB and would very likely get a 70 1 star to 100% quality. We can't just look at the face value of the star recipes though. We seem to take substantial penalty when doing them.

If you look at the Steamed Grouper, it has a 2952 Difficulty. The Persimmon Sushi is only 3149. That's really not that much on paper but there is a deception there because it's a whole other game. Without Ingenuity II it's pretty much impossible to finish. They use a different math with star stuff.

Indeed, star recipes do use a different math. The difficulty of an ARR 4 star recipe is identical to that of a level 53 recipe in Heavensward. Where as the difficulty of a HW 4 star recipe is the same as level 63 recipes in StormBlood (with the exception of the quality part as mentioned above). Thus, instead of using a level 60 recipe's math, the HW 4 star Scintillant Ring of Fending uses the math of a level 63 recipe for the calculation of difficulty.

However, since you're level 70, even though the 4 star lvl 60 recipe is using lvl 63 recipe math, it's still vastly below your current level. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Ingen2 lowers the current recipe level by 3 or 5(?). Turning a level 63 recipe into level 60 or 58 should make no difference for a level 70 crafter. Thus, the impact of Ingen2 should be very minimal in this case.

In contrast, when you were a level 60 in Heavensward, crafting a 4 star 60 item (~=level 63 recipe) would be ridiculously difficult. Hence, you're right it would have been nearly impossible to push progress without Ingen2 (although we did resolve this back then with Rath's rotation, and managed to get away without using Ingen2).

Nevertheless, I remember a recent patch has changed this slightly... (was it 4.0 or 4.05?). When we craft a recipe higher level than our crafting class, instead of having a huge penalty on progress, SE has now buffed progress for us, but implemented a huge penalty on quality instead. Thus, we can now complete the item with relative ease, but it'd be ridiculously difficult to HQ it. This effect can be seen in some recently proposed SB 2 star rotations, which some people put in Ingen1 into their rotations when they push quality. The effect would have been quite minimal in the past, but now it is actually significant.

[Ksenia]

Where as the difficulty of a HW 4 star recipe is the same as level 63 recipes in StormBlood

This might seem so based on what we see but no, I can zombie craft NQ to HQ for 63, even 65 and will HQ with 7 stacks and that's just not the case for the HW 4 stars. Those recipes reflected 68+ for me in terms of results and actions ratios. Even now at 70 they seem to have an entrenched difficulty associated to them. I also get a feeling the 11 stack standard is going to be done away with when we get 70 4 star. We got a 3rd Byregot skill that uses half stacks of inner quiet. Combine that with the new manipulation skill, it is telling me they expect us to get to 11, drop it back and rebuild.