Undercutting by 1 gil?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If you really want that top spot, as far as I'm concerned, you should be prepared to loose far more money then just 1 gil.

I'll be blunt. This is a really dumb mentality. By crashing the market you'll lose several times the amount you would had you simply undercut by 1-10 gil back. I just got into a war with someone over the Ao Dai. We both continuously dropped by a single gil, thus keeping the price in the seven figures. Getting to the top of the list is entirely the point of selling in this game because most people blind buy. In fact, you do realize by crashing the market, you're still jumping to the top. You're just foolishly throwing away gil because you've mad... someone didn't undercut you more?

[Rhus]

I dunno. It's good banter. I was selling an item where there was only 1 other seller. We went back and forward undercutting by 1 gil. I went back to starting price, they followed suit. It was a good game of cat and mouse. We both sold our item though so no harm.

Like the person above me though I did once crash the market on an item when someone came in at like 75% my selling fee. (example I was selling for 40K and they came in at like 10k) so I reduced mine to 4k which was less than you could buy NPC. They beat me on it as I knew they would, I bought it myself saving me money as it was less than NPC cost and stuck mine back to 40K and stuck the other one I just bought on at 40K lol 36k* profit on it when I sold both.

I didn't feel bad about it lol

*fees shown is example

[Mikki]

What Rhus did is smart... I always love to look for items of value that people post for less than vendor value. I find some items it happens more than with others; easy profit. But purposely crashing the market because you're angry someone dares try to get a quick sale without losing profits is just a bit... wow. This is how the market boards work. If you want to make money, you need to get fast sales with good profit. We only get 40 sale slots (or more if you're willing to shell out more real world cash for overpriced retainers). Undercutting is just part of the game and undercutting by 1 gil is what keeps the market healthy.

I get it though. A lot of people don't care about the "health of the mb". But jeez, you are some spiteful people. :I

[Lazaruz]

But purposely crashing the market because you're angry someone dares try to get a quick sale without losing profits is just a bit... wow.

It's not outof anger, it's outof spite.

While sure, I'd love to strike gold and get gil towards, oh lets say a house, I currently have more then enough to get by, and thusly I honestly cannot say I care about the "health of the MB" when I know for a fact it's already fickle enough to crash within minutes dependant on what players decide to list X item. If I have something to sell, and MB is viable to maybe actually give me enough of a profit for me to care, I want it gone and as soon as possible, or the next time I look, that 1 mil, might be 200k, simply due to 1 guy undercutting me by 1, then someone else undercuts them by 1k, and so on, and so on.

If people stay in the game, despite the drasticly decreasing price, I'll gladly admit that it's a extremely petty trait of mine, but I do enjoy knowing that while I may (key word may, since MBPVP) have denied myself outof, shall we say 400k gil, I've also done the same, if not more, to someone who might actually truly care that it happened (As I said, I get by, so for me it's just a "oh well. Better luck next time")

[Mikki]

I have no lack of gil myself - I've enough for a large house and a medium if I really wanted it, so honestly it isn't a huge deal to me if I lose out on profits and I would imagine for most people who are serious about the market boards, this is also the case (for me it's just fun to set and try to meet a quota of 1 million gil per day in sales). And I can tell you that if you would like to "strike gold" and get enough for a house, you need to undercut by 1 gil and care at least a little about the market's health. Sure, you can't control other idiots on the board and the markets can be easily crashed but you can at least help by not contributing to it. I'm sure a lot of the crashes that happen are from spiteful people.

But you know, I will undercut by 1 gil. If someone tanks the market, I'll just hold onto the item until the prices go back up (unless it literally takes little effort to get/make that item and I actually don't mind losing the profit). I haven't been denied my profit, just had it put off a bit. No big deal, I'll just list something else. Or, if you've tanked it a ridiculous amount then I'll just do what Rhus said and buy it and resell it getting double the profit with no effort. ....Would you still feel satisfied knowing that you may in some cases double someone's profit with no effort?

Anyway, I guess there isn't much to say if you admit you're just being spiteful and you don't actually care about how healthy the mb is. :I

[Lazaruz]

I have no lack of gil myself - I've enough for a large house and a medium if I really wanted it, so honestly it isn't a huge deal to me if I lose out on profits and I would imagine for most people who are serious about the market boards, this is also the case (for me it's just fun to set and try to meet a quota of 1 million gil per day in sales). And I can tell you that if you would like to "strike gold" and get enough for a house, you need to undercut by 1 gil and care at least a little about the market's health. Sure, you can't control other idiots on the board and the markets can be easily crashed but you can at least help by not contributing to it. I'm sure a lot of the crashes that happen are from spiteful people.


But you know, I will undercut by 1 gil. If someone tanks the market, I'll just hold onto the item until the prices go back up (unless it literally takes little effort to get/make that item and I actually don't mind losing the profit). I haven't been denied my profit, just had it put off a bit. No big deal, I'll just list something else. Or, if you've tanked it a ridiculous amount then I'll just do what Rhus said and buy it and resell it getting double the profit with no effort. ....Would you still feel satisfied knowing that you may in some cases double someone's profit with no effort?

Anyway, I guess there isn't much to say if you admit you're just being spiteful and you don't actually care about how healthy the mb is. :I

Oh believe me, I figured it out a long time ago that if I wanted to properly get somewhere in terms of playing the marketboard for profit, I'd have to devote significantly more time and effort, aswell as changing my pattern on undercutting, so you're very much so preaching to the choir in that regard. For a multitude of reasons however, doing my item listing "properly" is not a option for me, and it's not something I consider necessary either, as I have enough gil to get by in regards to what I spend it on, and dont gather enjoyment outof what, in my head, would be percieved as pure hoarding for the sake of hoarding.

And by all means, I have no doubt that a good number of people I've been competing with on the MB once I got spiteful and just started slowly dropping the price, just withdrew their items and waited for the price to go back up. It is however why in hindsight, it's incorrect of me to focus on garnering enjoyment outof "denying profit", because a more proper wording would be denying or delaying said profit. And I know for a fact some people have bought me out, and then opted to relist both items at the initial price. While in effect yes I did give them "double the profit", dependant on the item, lord knows how long it could take for them to sell both items, especially when, if I'm feeling particularly spitefull and see a competitor buying me out (to then relist at original price) on a item I can craft withouth too much effort, I'll make another, and start the process over again.

But when push comes to shove. No, it's absolutely no skin off my back if someone I'm competing with, buys me out, and then relists and sells the item at the "original" price, because at the end of the day I managed my goal. My item got sold, and for more then it would've if I sold it to a NPC



But you're absolutely right, there's not much else to say in this regard. I'm a spitefull prick, and fundamentaly, I cannot find it in me to truly care about maintaining MB prices, since I know for a fact there's far more people then me who feel the same

[Vahlnir]

But you're absolutely right, there's not much else to say in this regard. I'm a spitefull prick, and fundamentaly, I cannot find it in me to truly care about maintaining MB prices, since I know for a fact there's far more people then me who feel the same

This is the mentality I think most people have an issue with, myself included. But at least you're being honest...lol I just fail to understand why people wouldn't want to maximize their profits. I get the logic behind huge undercuts, I just disagree with the method.

[LandricFrey]

I undercut by way more than 1 gil. Reason? I don't have the time nor do I want to spend the time camping the boards for the lowest price. What's the point of beating a seller by 1 gil when an hour later, he beats me by a gil and keeps selling and replacing his stock. So my goal is to find the point where he doesn't find it worth to sell the item any longer allowing me to make my sale.

In fact I used to undercut so much I'd lose money. That way all other competition would abandon the item, thus allowing me to gouge to my hearts content. Now I don't really play the market anymore, but hope this gives people insight on why some people do strange things on the MB.

[Lyrinn]

Here is some perspective from the other side with a little bit of game theory mixed in:

At any given point, the player with the cheapest item is in the most likely position to get the sale, largely due to laziness (people don't want to teleport to the right city and/or don't care about tax) or ignorance (many people don't even know there's a city tax). Suppose you have two players, A and B, undercutting each other but B is either less active or unwilling to update prices as frequently as A. Both players can replace an item immediately after it's sold (you see this in slower markets, namely gear). Because A can keep his price on top almost all the time, A is in position to get all of the sales and therefore 100% of the profits while B gets nothing. From B's perspective, he can't keep up with A in the undercut war, and since B doesn't get any of the money anyways, B has no incentive to preserve A's profits. B's best chance is to drop the price by a large enough margin that a prospective buyer might jump on it thinking it's a good deal. Queue big undercut. Repeat this until price crashes.

It's possible B can make a sale right after a 1 gil cut but depending on the frequency of sales, this can be unlikely if A is a no-lifer sitting in front of the market board checking retainers all day - like many hardcore crafters.

Now, if this big undercut behavior frustrates people as much as this thread indicates, B will also make people leave the markets either in frustration or in search of better opportunities. If B can make A quit, B can reset prices to their original value and hold a monopoly on the market.

This is how we see it. The market board isn't some cooperative game; it's a winner-take-all PvP deathmatch. The one way you can avoid the scenario outlined is to price match, which truly "preserves the health of the market board" by keeping prices static instead of forever falling (even if it's just by 1). Yet, I doubt any of you claiming you're "preserving the health of the market board" really care about that. People undercut for only 1 reason and it's to get the sale. There's no other motive involved.


Note: this argument only works for slow markets, not fast moving ones like materials, leve turn-ins, or whatever, and slow moving markets are the only ones with prices in the millions that allow for huge undercuts like what people are complaining about here.

Edit: Format change because people's reading comprehension is severely lacking.

[Vahlnir]

At any given point, the player with the cheapest itemThe market board isn't some cooperative game; it's a winner-take-all PvP deathmatch. The one way you can avoid the scenario outlined is to price match, which truly "preserves the health of the market board" by keeping prices static instead of forever falling (even if it's just by 1). Yet, I doubt any of you claiming you're "preserving the health of the market board" really care about that. People undercut for only 1 reason and it's to get the sale. There's no other motive involved.

Slow or fast markets, it shouldn't matter. Winning smarter is always better. The MB is arguably more competitive than actual PvP, no doubt. But just like PvP, gotta play smart. Getting the most points is the goal of PvP, and getting the most gil should be the goal of the MB imo.