What is a 'bad player'?

[Demacia]

Definition of bad player = majority of FFXIV players in general who only know how to stack a couple classes to win fights.


so if its not what you meant then i misinterpreted it.

Oh I didn't mean using the armory system, I think it's great the way it is in 1.20 actually. I meant using a simple cookie cutter setup in endgame fights like it's the law.

[tachikoma]

Many people who fit in the elitist role take offense to a player on their main job who don't spend the most basic of efforts to gear up for a fight. I'm not saying everyone should have double meld yada yada gear but for the most basic of setups if you are a THM and you go to an Ifrit fight with me as a DD and you are sporting your dated ornate silver sceptor I just might drop party. Anyone can spend 2hours a week and farm up some karakul fleece with any 50 job and bank enough to buy a full set of basic nuking gear. Buy some entry level tier III materia and do a few shouts around for a couple basic melds. Go full dated setup of pre 1.19 gear vs the 3hours to gear up your main job and its gonna make a monster difference in DPS/usefulness.

I have no idea what your gear setup was but I do take offense when I see someone who couldn't bother to spend 10min. in the wards to at least pick up the basics. Of course I make every effort to help out people and if it were me I'd have whipped you up a set of gear on the spot. I make it my personal challenge to help people out if I can. I was once new to MMO's and had no idea how to get sub jobs and some nice players that I still remember helped me on Bahamut back in 2004 I want to be remembered like that. He sounds to me like a strait dick and not the type of ppl I hope to meet in FFXIV ever.

[syntaxlies]

Oh I didn't mean using the armory system, I think it's great the way it is in 1.20 actually. I meant using a simple cookie cutter setup in endgame fights like it's the law.

k, then i read it wrong, sorry.

[darkstarpoet1]

Oh I didn't mean using the armory system, I think it's great the way it is in 1.20 actually. I meant using a simple cookie cutter setup in endgame fights like it's the law.

after killing things hundreds of times using different methods and setups it becomes just run it the easy way to beat it. i've beaten ifrit with all kinds of different setups and at this point i'll only go in with a select few different ones. it's not because it can't be beaten with others, but by this point the fight is just about farming that last few drops.

those end game fights lose their appeal after you run them over and over and it becomes worthless to keep trying new things. you can only run something so many times before the fun is gone from them.

[Dragon]

Bad players are those that know better but don't do what's expected of them... like the one the OP describes.

[Rutelor]

Many people who fit in the elitist role take offense to a player on their main job who don't spend the most basic of efforts to gear up for a fight. I'm not saying everyone should have double meld yada yada gear but for the most basic of setups if you are a THM and you go to an Ifrit fight with me as a DD and you are sporting your dated ornate silver sceptor I just might drop party. Anyone can spend 2hours a week and farm up some karakul fleece with any 50 job and bank enough to buy a full set of basic nuking gear. Buy some entry level tier III materia and do a few shouts around for a couple basic melds. Go full dated setup of pre 1.19 gear vs the 3hours to gear up your main job and its gonna make a monster difference in DPS/usefulness.

I have no idea what your gear setup was but I do take offense when I see someone who couldn't bother to spend 10min. in the wards to at least pick up the basics. Of course I make every effort to help out people and if it were me I'd have whipped you up a set of gear on the spot. I make it my personal challenge to help people out if I can. I was once new to MMO's and had no idea how to get sub jobs and some nice players that I still remember helped me on Bahamut back in 2004 I want to be remembered like that. He sounds to me like a strait dick and not the type of ppl I hope to meet in FFXIV ever.

Are we going to be indulgent with the whole concept of "taking offence" when someone does something out of relative inexperience or ignorance? Because I think this is the tipping point that starts pushing the whole community towards the abusive tendencies so many evince. The problem seems to reside in the fact that many of the "offended" parties find that offence to be a totally logical forerunner of their abusive excesses, making these acceptable. Whether verbal abuse, or tantrums, or demands, or suddenly abandoning a party in the middle of the run because people are "wasting their time," I view this behavior as nothing but intolerant, abusive and, at worst, Fascistoid.

My preferred attitude would be to respectfully, and somewhat humbly, send a tell to offer some guidance to the person that is creating the issues, whether it be from gear, or behavior. But in their minds this suggestion seems to be an added offence. However, in a game in which so much has been done, by intention and design, to bring together disparate populations, and one in which information is, still in the post-Tanaka age, so scarce and unclear, it is not fair to punish those with more casual attitudes. Especially if they evince interest in doing well and pulling their weight, once they've been informed of the problems they might be causing.

That is not to say that there aren't players that underperform out of malice... but this is really a rare case. And everybody is in agreement about what to do in those instances. In most other cases, however, the true offenders are the Game Nazis, as I call them. I have written elsewhere advocating for a game environment in which challenge and frustration exist to stimulate a sense of reward, achievement, but also of community and cooperation. As a corollary to that principle, one of tolerance and willingness to improve the group by helping the individual must be understood and accepted.

Those among us that need to abusively define themselves by underlining performance contrasts with others, usually when they are ahead, never when they're behind, tend to be desperate, abused individuals in real life that have come to the game world to perpetuate the cycle of abuse. I'm not pushing for an end to challenge, nor for a lack of a certain pressure to better the collective by improving the parts; but bullying MUST not be tolerated here, just like anywhere else. However, I see party/linkshell leaders actively catering to those abusers, just because with them in their party/shell, they feel they increase the possibilities of the coveted win or drop. In my book, no gear is worth that.

R

[Xenien]

Well i party a lot with Black Mamba and at times i can be a elitist but i am the one who likes to have fun and doesn't mind trying with new people and losing. I do ask around about the people i am inviting to see if they do not completely suck does that make me a bad person? I like to have fun and do things and figure them out. I am not the type to just say hey you suck but when people get a rep as being a bad player i just do not like to invite those people. Not gonna pick any names because i think that would be mean. I do try to help people get better but some people just do not get better with good criticism and it gets pointless. Yeah i know everyone can be good or bad but some people just can not learn. A point with the new combo system its really hard to do it on Ifrit now without getting caught in the new animation lock and keeping your numbers up high so i tend to die a lot from eruptions from doing combo's but i am not against trying to not combo but it's hard i hate how SE makes things insanely hard. Any ways there are different kind of players, elitists however you want to call it im the one who has good gear and matieria and considers myself a good player but doesn't hate new people but will like to play with anyone and have fun just not repeated people who cannot learn how to do something.

[Kuroyume_Black]

So, like the title says… what in your opinion makes a bad player?

Here’s my story:
I am a really casual player – only during the Christmas holidays got my 2nd job to 50 even though I have been playing on and off since Alpha testing!!! – so you could say that I am not a big time gamer and I admit that I probably can’t do as well as some other people who play their jobs on a daily basis. I am not stupid though, I listen when people teach me and I try to live up for the expectations.

During the Christmas break I was doing Moogle battle and me and my friend were trying to figure out different tactics to do this fight… neither of us had ever done this before and we didn’t read at first how other’s had done it so we would make our own experience.
We got many likeminded people to join us and we lost the fight at least 20 times (we had fun though!!)

Then we had a person join us who came on the run with the attitude that he was a gift from gods to us that we would never do the run without him. Well, we lost on few occasions again and then we gave up for the day.

On the weekend, I was doing Ifrit fight to see if I could get a weapon since last time I didn’t get anything and this same guy joined our run. My friend who was making the party told me that he wasn’t going to join the run if I went as THM which got me really baffled (At the time I only had THM @ 50). I know I wasn’t doing great damage on Moogle fight because of MP issues but I did burn down the first moogle in no time (being highest DPS until well… the MP issues started). I also helped binding the moogles after 2h and stunned as well… so I wanted to know why in his opinion I was doing so bad.

I sent him a tell asking (politely) why he thinks my THM sucks and instead of actually giving me any kind of constructive criticism he started bashing me how people like me disgust him, how he hates “carrying” people through fights etc. etc. He got really rude and in the end I left the party in the verge of tears because I had no idea what I had done to make him hate me so much (Yes I am a girl, I cry easy, sue me!)

I didn’t play almost at all the following day (yesterday) and was considering quitting since I didn’t want to come across people like him ever again. I thought that I was such a lost cause, a really bad player that no one would ever want to do any fights with me.
Then I had a chat with my linkshell people (which are all really lovely) and they encouraged me to stay and only do runs with them from now on, (which I will because maybe they can actually teach me play right if I indeed do so badly).

I think… the guy who was a jerk is the WORST kind of player a game can have (not me, even though I can suck on some occasions). A narrow-minded elitist brick who only sees one direction from his high chair and considers anyone lesser (i.e. a person who doesn’t play 24/7, have full double material on all gear etc.) is not worth his time (except for insults).

Don't worry too much about it Mamba ^^ when I used to be in Saronia I was a healer and I sucked so people always used to rage on me.
Personally bad players for me are:

Players that, instead of helping someone whos having trouble with something, rage at them..
Players that take any help given to them as an insult because they think they're amazing even though they're not that great
Players that complain about every small thing about the game

For me I don't care how low a level player someone is, as long as they can learn from their mistakes I try and help them at the same time I don't mind people giving meconstructivecriticism though I do mind if people think they're sooo much better than me when they're really not... I just want people to remember that this is still a game, people play to enjoy it not to be raged at by someone who is only better because they spend so long playing (I'm not trying to be mean to people that spend a long time playing as long as their nice to others... ) I'm sure the GM's and Dev's would agree with me when I say this... everyone should be able to play the game no matter how low a level they, how old they are, how skilled they are and who they are... I've probably posted this a kajillion times somewhere but Ima post it again, I'm only 13 and the maturity level of others really surprises me, sure I'm a bit too mature for my age and that gives me problems in real life but come on... since when have people been this immature and mean to others... trust me if I was leader of a party with one of those horribly mean people in it I would first tell them what they're doing wrong, give them one more time to fix it and then oust them right out of the party ^^. Btw Mamba I don't see how someone can get so mad at someone like you you're nice to everyone in LS chat at least

[Irana]

So, like the title says… what in your opinion makes a bad player?.

Mamba if you ever feel sad in that server..come to selbina..me and my friends will help you out as much as possible.

I hate ppl that bash others for no reason...if you are going to insult someone at least do it politely... I feel for you u.u

Hope you recovered and kick moogles and ifrits butt forever!

[Reaujien]

Didn't read all the other posts simply because we all have our versions of what a "bad player" is - it's naturally subjective, and it's okay that we all have different opinions on subjective material.

What I think are "bad" players? Players who...

... don't want to participate in a group-oriented strategy (e.g., "everyone stand over here!" *bad player stands over there instead for some reason*).

... think it's 100% the game's fault if they (or the group) can't win a battle/dungeon/etc.

... think that throwing a nearly entire full-party setup of ClassX-onry at a fight will win it, and ONLY ClassX NO EXCEPTIONS GRRRR *ANGRY FACE* (and yes, with the angry face indeed).

... are ignorant, and don't want to hear how he/she may better perform his/her role in a certain situation; especially if he/she is not performing well-enough fulfill such role.

As far as that player you interacted with... yeah D-bags come in all shapes and sizes, and whether they're "good players", "bad players", or w/e, they're still D-bags, and unfortunately their parents spawned them unto this earth and the internet has given them a false perception that people actually care what they have to say.