What You're Doing Wrong In Shatter (And How To Fix It!)

[Synestra]

You forgot a sub point:

If you are on Moogle, go Maelstrom Since they almost always win, and bots go on other 2 factions by frontline freelance.

You get same cancer even on mael but the reason why they win more is because adders and immortals are even worse than mael.

[kuma_aus]

One thing that helps me immensely in shatter is knowing the ice spawn times. There's several macros that get posted to alliance chat when I have matches so people know spawn times. Here's one example, in JP because of JP data centre but it's easy to understand as long as you know that 大氷パターン = Big Ice Pattern, 小氷 = Small Ice and 分 = Minute. I tried an EN translation one but it might be a bit ugly.

[大氷パターン]
[1]19分→16分→12分→8分
[2]19分→15分x2→10分
[3]19分→15分→10分x2
[4]小氷ALL→14分→12分→10分→8分

[Big Ice Pattern]
[1]19 min→16 min→12 min→8 min
[2]19 min→15 min x2→10 min
[3]19 min→15 min→10 min x2
[4]Small Ice ALL→14 min→12 min→10 min→8 min

This is for a full 72 player match. If there was a Big Ice spawn at 19 minutes to go, then there will be another Big Ice at 16 or 15 minutes. If there was a Big Ice at 16 mins, then the next Big Ice will be at 12 mins > 8 mins. If there was no Big Ice at 16 mins, then at 15 mins there will be 1x or 2x Big Ice spawns. If there was 1x spawn, then at 10 mins there will be 2x. If there was 2x spawns, then there will be the final big ice at 10 mins. If at the start of the map, there was every small ice, then the big ice follows pattern 4 with them spawning at 14 mins > 12 > 10 > 8. If this is a 24 player map with just Big Ice, it will always follow pattern [1].

The way knowing this helps me is that it lets me know when I have free time to get other objectives or camp highly contested small ice areas before a big ice spawns. I can't log in and play properly for a few days so I can't make my own map, so I'll just be editing Valeria's to show what I mean.



So say I'm playing as Flames. I might stand near the purple marker after the first Big Ice at 19 minutes spawns. If there is no spawn at 16 minutes, I know that there will be another spawn at 15 minutes. So that gives me like 1 minute of just doing nothing and waiting. So instead of that, I sometimes make my way across the blue arrow and try and steal a base (Maelstorms in this case). You need to pay close attention to the map if you're trying this though. If it's clear the enemy is very close to the outpost, you might not be able to steal the base. But it's always worth to try since there have been times that the enemies haven't looked back towards the base and noticed I've been trying to steal it. And if you are successful, it normally causes around 50-80% of the enemy team to rush back to base to try and recapture the base you just stole. This frees up a lot of space for your own alliance to get a good position on any Ice that spawns at 15 minutes. You can do something similar but on the outside circle to make your way to other bases if big ice is a while away. Also say Bottom Right Ice is the last Big Ice to spawn, if you know when it will spawn, you can position yourself on the outside circle so that you can quickly steal an enemy base once they rush towards the Big Ice when it spawns.

Now say it's following pattern 1 - 3. There is a lot of free time between big ice spawns. Now on the map imagine if the big red circles I've added were Small Ice that have been destroyed, and green circles are Small Ice still alive but not spawned. If there is quite some time before the next Big Ice spawns, I know I can hang out near the Orange Circle and pressure the enemy from getting close to the 4 small ice at the top. It helps a lot if you have other people to help, but even when enemies just see you by yourself, a lot of them are a bit cautious at trying to approach especially if no Ice has spawned yet and we're just waiting. And if one of the top small ice spawns, I have a good position to start on them.

It's hard to say exactly what I mean. But with good map awareness, knowing when the big ice will spawn and knowing how most enemies react to different things you can do some good plays that really disrupt the opponent teams.

[Garten]

You get same cancer even on mael but the reason why they win more is because adders and immortals are even worse than mael.

If there are so good people there, why someone don't change faction to get a more interesting match?
Or why people in Adders and Flames don't go with Mael then too?

[Synestra]

If there are so good people there, why someone don't change faction to get a more interesting match?
Or why people in Adders and Flames don't go with Mael then too?

Good question but from my experience majority who plays on adder/immortal simply doesn't care if they win or lose or so it looks like, they are usually just fighting each other while ignoring/avoiding maels as much as possible. I don't know why they do this seeing that they do have lots of healers so that shouldn't be a issue, they have all keys for winning but they simply don't care it seems.

[Garten]

Good question but from my experience majority who plays on adder/immortal simply doesn't care if they win or lose or so it looks like, they are usually just fighting each other while ignoring/avoiding maels as much as possible. I don't know why they do this seeing that they do have lots of healers so that shouldn't be a issue, they have all keys for winning but they simply don't care it seems.

Yeah, that is why i would prefere to do a 8 vs 8 vs 8 match, instead a 72 people match. And then if only i had 7 friends do a premade party, at least i(we) could do a game that could make sense.
Then if we win would mean that probably we played better than the others, if we lose we played worse.

[Garten]

.. a lot of stuff..

After reading all this post and answers, i started notice that good teams seems to keep the others away from ice that are going to spawn, and how this strategy play off a lot T_T

So POSITIONING and moving on the RIGHT SPOTS on the map during the match seems to weight a lot in the final outcome.

[Geryth]

6. MCH Specifically: Fully Loading Before The Battle - I see this so much (and hear if I'm not looking), I'm just gonna skip right to the "How To Fix It". . . Don't do this. Ever. You only lock yourself out of heat generation for all 3 of those shots, effectively nerfing your own damage potential. Furthermore, don't use Reload when under 50 Heat (2 Hot Shots will get you to 50 with ease).\

Fantastic information here overall! But to the quoted piece, I'm going to have to say this is almost absolutely wrong!

I spammed frontlines for the allagan circle mounts, and I've just recently attained them, so I put in about 300 frontlines games in the past month. I main Dragoon and it took a while but I figured out how to do my role well, but I knew that even calling out ices and when to attack bases and avoid pincers etc. etc. I was still not carrying very much. And since Machinist starts at level 30, may as well try it!

So I swapped to Machinist and man was it easier. With my calls trying to lead the team and being able to range people to death, my win rate skyrocketed from ~30% to over 50%.

Proofs:


I have about 100 games on machinist and I played half of those without even thinking about reloading before battle and about half after seeing others do the same, with a little bit of back and forth trying to see what works better.

90% of the time, reloading before battle is better, and the reason is ice! If Gausse Barrel is attached and then reused, you instantly overheat (this has like a 1 or 2 minute cooldown), and you have 3 loaded bullets to maximize burst to take as many points as possible from enemy ices or neutral ices heavily fought over. So at 19:45 aim for ices that you can steal points from, and use your preloaded bullets to burst as much damage as possible to steal points. I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure there's not a single class burst combo that can out-damage machinist over the ~12 second period he's overheated and using ammo while overheated. When I run my combo I will always have ice aggro unless the ice lives a while and the sustained DPS of a melee can eventually take over.

What if an ice spawns at 19:45 that is in your base or in an enemy base or somewhere you can't get points from it? You have two options: Wait for the big ice at 19:00 to run your burst or if enemies start sparring before that ice, you have the option of bursting a player down if you think you can secure the kill.

There are two not as common ways that this doesn't work out for you.
1) You decided to wait for the 19:00 ice but an enemy team came out aggressive. You may have lost points by not securing kills by not participating in the pre-ice brawl.
2) You decided to try to burst someone down but they had good healing support and/or you didn't pick a target anyone else attacked so you didn't secure a kill. Now you're gimped against the ice when it spawns.

Again, 90% of the time and learning good intuition with experience means pre-loading bullets before the battle starts is going to net your team more points, as long as you use those pre-loaded bullets to pull off insane burst by instantly overloading your gausse barrel.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

First, Gauss Barrel, once used, becomes the old MCH PvP aoe stun, Stun Gun. An aoe stun. Sure, it forces an overheat regardless of gauge, but you're wasting a very powerful CC tool that can be used on both offense and defense. Did a DRK just pull me in? Did a WAR just Holmgang me? Did a MNK just Shoulder Tackle me out of nowhere? Stun Gun to their face and begin a counteroffensive.

What you explained perhaps works in Shatter, but there ARE other modes too where that wouldn't quite apply. All I need is 2 Hot Shots (whether on ice or an enemy player), and I'm good to go, with increased damage and all my cc abilities readily available. Assuming the 250 potency increase of ammo is present, the heated 4500 total potency shot combo (1250>1500>1750) is the same, but I'd have the added benefit of still not being close to overheating at all due to building up, THEN reloading between the shots, thus generating no heat per shot. Basically: Hot Shot>Hot Shot>Reload>H Split>Reload>H Slug>Reload>H Clean. . . 4500 and I'm still sitting at 50 heat, AND still have my stun available if needed. Best of all, I can still deal damage at my highest due to no forced cooldown, still push into an Overheat either naturally or with Stun Gun, AND if I somehow don't want to overheat yet, there's Cooldown (the weaponskill) to keep myself heated indefinitely. . .

I don't mean to step on any toes, but if you're using your burst on the ice, that's. . . not good. But we'll chalk it up to differences in playstyle. At the most, I hit ice when I need to build heat quick (and there are no enemy players around) or when there's absolutely nothing else to do. Beyond that, I'm following the advice I gave in the guide and actively trying to take down any enemy Battle Highs/Fevers (or prevent them from happening), taking out healers, defending teammates, and stopping enemy players from hitting the ice by making sure they're not alive to. I literally have no time or concern for the ice.

You may have recently picked up MCH and performed well with it, but I've been maining it in PvE and PvP since day 1. In both 3.x when MCH had "too many buttons", and even now where our PvP gameplay is a bit too simplified now. Let's not try to weigh your month of MCH vs my 2 years of it. . .

[Geryth]

Snip

You are absolutely correct, my advice only applies to Shatter.

You really underestimate the ice and your role as a physical DPS. Casters are gimped against ice for some reason so their focus should be on picking kills, while yours should be on ice whenever possible. Your advice was great and stands - if you can get picks, take advantage of it. You get points for the kill and you get the points for the damage they are no longer doing to the ice. But you have to be real careful about when you make that choice - if you start trying to get a pick and the target gets healing support, your time is literally wasted. You got no points for not getting a kill and you didn't do damage to the ice while they did.

But again, as a ranged physical DPS you are the safest and most reliable damage on ices. Dragoon is superior sustained overall DPS but is sooo dangerous being melee, and you are the target of getting picked (and rightfully so because if they don't kill you you're going to steal a lot of ice points).

As for the stun...different play styles. I respect your use of the ability. I always use it for DPS because I think I get more points for the ability when used for burst. I keep a sharp eye on my positioning to prevent getting holmganged or sucked in my a DRK, and I have heavy and a pushback for over-zealous melee. Sure I get caught sometimes, but that's my mistake on map awareness. With a knowledge of where my opponents are, where my allies are, and where the next ice will spawn, I can maximize my gauss barrel for points and wins instead of get-out-jail cards. But then again, it is only a 60s cooldown, so it's not like I never have it available for the stun.

Also, my experience is anecdotal. If there was a way to prove a "most efficient" way to use stun gun or precisely what gets more points - loading ammo before battle or not - then I concede to facts. But without facts and objective data, anecdotal is all I have. But with a 51% win rate queuing adders only against a Maelstrom dominated meta, I don't think my methods are too far off the optimal way to do things. Again, I respect your time and experience, but your advice on pre-loading bullets goes opposite to my experience. I'll take your advice and give it a try, and maybe I'll see things your way.

[LittleSparrow]

I'm gonna have to agree with OP. Hot shot to get heat, then start reloading. I always reload when I have heat out of combat, and in combat I reload inbetween shots.