DRK AOE Damage

[Mithron]

DRK is still AoE tank king and it's still pretty great, but is much worse than it used to be in HW for sure. Blood Price nerf hurt a lot, and Delirium's CD is too long to make up for it. Quietus and The Blackest Night however are your new tools that help a ton. On big pulls, you'll be getting more than enough Blood fueled by your Blood Price and Salted Earth alone, with some The Blackest Nights sprinkled in as well, which will make Quietus spam pretty frequent and honestly give you enough MP to even Dark Arts them to prevent overcapping on MP. I think the dream would be to let Abyssal Drain give some Blood so you can just spam Abyssal with Quietus non-stop on say 4+ mobs. Not exactly broken in any boss fights, so it would just be really fun to do in dungeons.

[Phoenicia]

DRK is still AoE tank king and it's still pretty great, but is much worse than it used to be in HW for sure.

I can argue that DRK is NOT the AoE king in any form. Specially if you know the aggro on their AoE moves lol. However, they are really fun in AoE and if the resources are juggled right they can go on forever. But the same is true for the other 2 tanks as well. If anything DRK has the weakest defense in sustained AoE situations even with DAAD which cannot be sustained for too long because of the MP restraints. TBN only adds to the MP restraints if it fails to pop (it shouldn't fail) and its CD is not short enough to cover the CD gaps between the horrible ones (Shadow Wall and LD). A DRK WILL definitely have trouble carrying a bad healer where WAR and PLD may not, and dropping Grit can be a problem with average healers.

I have never run out of TP on WAR, I'm even surprised it's mentioned here as an issue. Just like DRK where you need to Siphon Strike here and there to regain MP (AoE downtime), WAR SHOULD do Storm's Eye to get the 20% damage buff and doing Storm's Path here and there for gauge is not a bad idea. WAR's AoE doesn't come from Overpower alone, but also from the 2.5 times stronger Steel Cyclone (remember ignores defiance penalty and heals 25% of damage done) and Decimate. If you are spamming only overpower, that's like a DRK spamming only Unleash and then wonder why they're out of resource and their DPS is crap. And if you went overboard on TP (and you never need to) you have Deliverance Equilibrium. TP also regens, and fast, unlike DRK's MP. As far as mitigation goes, WAR has the highest personal mitigation between the through their shorter CDs, not counting Defiance-locked tools (Inner Beast, heals from Steel Cyclone and Equilibrium).

Heck, even PLD is not bad in AoE, you Flash once which generates twice the enmity Abyssal Drain, drop Shield Oath and spam Total Eclipse until near out of TP. You have enough CDs to cycle for the AoE damage intake without Shield Oath. Once you're out of TP, you stop your AoE (Like every other tank) and pick a target to Holy Spirit their face under requeisat, or even cycle through the targets with it to damage multiple ones and never fall behind on enmity, by the time you're out of MP, the pack should be dead or you have enough TP to hit more. If not, replace your DPS and maybe tell your healer to DPS more. You have Hallowed Ground for a reason, and it's not for them to watch you while their MP is full.

All in all, none of the tanks is bad at AOE and the gap between them is totally negligible. And DRK is definitely not the best among them at it. if I wanna rank them:

Mitigation: PLD = WAR > DRK. PLD has some passive mitigation and HG, WAR has more CDs to cycle and self healing on WAR doesn't stop its AoE DPS.

Aggro: WAR > DRK > PLD. Overpower has a 10x multiplier on its 120 potency (1200) and can crit and DH, also Steel Cyclone is roughly 750 potency. Equilibrium alone is insane aggro. PLD is worst at enmity because Total Eclipse has no enmity multiplier but it's still a 110 potency spammable. DRK's Unleash is bad for DPS at 50 potency and its their highest AoE enmity at a multiplier of 20.6, AD has a 6x which is half a Flash/Overpower.

DPS: WAR >= DRK > PLD. The difference isn't huge. Not huge enough to make a whole minute difference on a dungeon run anyways. Specially if you take their mitigation and healer's DPS contribution. As explained earlier, WAR can decimate, literally and figuratively, packs with big bursts. PLD only drops in AoE because of Holy Spirit, but that's very high single target burst DPS. And DRK is a cycle of sustained AoE then MP regen then sustained AoE again with slight bursts.

Ease of use: PLD > WAR > DRK. Should be quite obvious why.

A lot of the above has my opinion and personal experience, so take what you don't like with a grain of salt.
~ Phoenicia ~

[Sarcatica]

I can argue that DRK is NOT the AoE king in any form. Specially if you know the aggro on their AoE moves lol. However, they are really fun in AoE and if the resources are juggled right they can go on forever. But the same is true for the other 2 tanks as well. If anything DRK has the weakest defense in sustained AoE situations even with DAAD which cannot be sustained for too long because of the MP restraints. TBN only adds to the MP restraints if it fails to pop (it shouldn't fail) and its CD is not short enough to cover the CD gaps between the horrible ones (Shadow Wall and LD). A DRK WILL definitely have trouble carrying a bad healer where WAR and PLD may not, and dropping Grit can be a problem with average healers.

I have never run out of TP on WAR, I'm even surprised it's mentioned here as an issue. Just like DRK where you need to Siphon Strike here and there to regain MP (AoE downtime), WAR SHOULD do Storm's Eye to get the 20% damage buff and doing Storm's Path here and there for gauge is not a bad idea. WAR's AoE doesn't come from Overpower alone, but also from the 2.5 times stronger Steel Cyclone (remember ignores defiance penalty and heals 25% of damage done) and Decimate. If you are spamming only overpower, that's like a DRK spamming only Unleash and then wonder why they're out of resource and their DPS is crap. And if you went overboard on TP (and you never need to) you have Deliverance Equilibrium. TP also regens, and fast, unlike DRK's MP. As far as mitigation goes, WAR has the highest personal mitigation between the through their shorter CDs, not counting Defiance-locked tools (Inner Beast, heals from Steel Cyclone and Equilibrium).

Heck, even PLD is not bad in AoE, you Flash once which generates twice the enmity Abyssal Drain, drop Shield Oath and spam Total Eclipse until near out of TP. You have enough CDs to cycle for the AoE damage intake without Shield Oath. Once you're out of TP, you stop your AoE (Like every other tank) and pick a target to Holy Spirit their face under requeisat, or even cycle through the targets with it to damage multiple ones and never fall behind on enmity, by the time you're out of MP, the pack should be dead or you have enough TP to hit more. If not, replace your DPS and maybe tell your healer to DPS more. You have Hallowed Ground for a reason, and it's not for them to watch you while their MP is full.

All in all, none of the tanks is bad at AOE and the gap between them is totally negligible. And DRK is definitely not the best among them at it. if I wanna rank them:

Mitigation: PLD = WAR > DRK. PLD has some passive mitigation and HG, WAR has more CDs to cycle and self healing on WAR doesn't stop its AoE DPS.

Aggro: WAR > DRK > PLD. Overpower has a 10x multiplier on its 120 potency (1200) and can crit and DH, also Steel Cyclone is roughly 750 potency. Equilibrium alone is insane aggro. PLD is worst at enmity because Total Eclipse has no enmity multiplier but it's still a 110 potency spammable. DRK's Unleash is bad for DPS at 50 potency and its their highest AoE enmity at a multiplier of 20.6, AD has a 6x which is half a Flash/Overpower.

DPS: WAR >= DRK > PLD. The difference isn't huge. Not huge enough to make a whole minute difference on a dungeon run anyways. Specially if you take their mitigation and healer's DPS contribution. As explained earlier, WAR can decimate, literally and figuratively, packs with big bursts. PLD only drops in AoE because of Holy Spirit, but that's very high single target burst DPS. And DRK is a cycle of sustained AoE then MP regen then sustained AoE again with slight bursts.

Ease of use: PLD > WAR > DRK. Should be quite obvious why.

A lot of the above has my opinion and personal experience, so take what you don't like with a grain of salt.
~ Phoenicia ~

DRK is still best on dungeon. I occasionally go back to WAR and TP is still an issue, are you even spamming Overpower? Because gauges takes ages to refill through combos. DRK cycling mana through Syphon is only when your mob count is 2-3 left (if 3-4 of them are dying at the same time because of AoE, you need to prep for mana), you never go out of the way trying to cycle mana so early in the pull, if any, you are just not managing your Blood Gauge and mana well enough prior to every pull.

PLD still is the worst in terms of self sustain (WAR is almost the same for this), and the mitigation tool for big pull as a PLD is by far the weakest. Rampart, Sentinel, HG are all good. BUT if you are trying to do sub 13-14mins, you can only use 2 HG and you have to use 1st HG early on. Sheltron sucks in packs of mobs, if you have to ask why then I have nothing to say. You want sustain? Drop your GCDs for it, let me spell it right: B A D. Why drop dps to heal when you can do both as DRK?

All things mentioned in this thread is mostly for personal DPS, sure WAR can do huge amount of burst once in awhile but that's on the expense of healer needing to heal more because WAR's self heal is pretty weak (VS DRK in aoe). Healer can contribute a lot in aoe situations, their 1 gcd is so much more valuable vs your "Blaze parse in DPS stance 6x Decimate". Equilibrium is for TP, Goad and/or Tactician still not enough if you spam Overpower which is your main aoe tool outside of gauge, you pretty much have a lot of aoe downtime if you use combo where DRK has almost no issue in big pulls.

Summary for lvl70 tanks in 4man dungeons big (gate to gate, mostly) pulling:

Mitigation: DRK >> WAR >> PLD. TBN and self heals >>>> WAR/PLD. WAR has more potent CDs than PLD. Sheltron is really good I think, maybe.

Aggro: DRK > PLD > WAR. Picking up mobs as WAR sucks without Flash. PLD might get into aggro problem but WAR feels clunky especially when all the dps like to start their combos real bad. Let's be real here, if you lose aggro when you are clumped up, you are bad. Picking up mobs is much more relevant.

DPS: WAR (only for personal) >= DRK (I still rate DRK much higher than WAR) > PLD. WAR's dps is mostly just personal. DRK if you look at total dps. PLD is by far the worst in this department due to FoF and Requiescat timing. PLD's aoe burst is only during FoF, Requiescat is mostly for when you have no more TP to spam aoe or if your mob count is 3 or less.

I have full i340 with i345 weapon for all tanks now, I have also provided my DRK datas for all DREX "speedrun" in my previous claims in this thread.

EDIT: DISCLAIMER: You will get different healers and how they do dungeons is outside of my points. You will also get different dps and they might not aoe because they say they are melee? (Duh), or casters doing 2.5k dps for the entirety of the dungeon.

[Phoenicia]

Snip

I don't really want to argue much on this topic. But really, you make it sound that DRK is BLM in plate armor. When in fact, it doesn't matter which tank you have as long as your pulls big. Any good DPS will do three times your DPS "at least". And on bosses (single target) DRK is clearly the biggest loser in ST-DPS between the tanks so even if you did more AoE in packs, you slow the run on bosses.

You lost your own argument when you said WAR's personal DPS beats DRK's. Personal DPS is all there is to a tank's DPS since no tank brings a DPS buff. But WAR brings slashing so SAM and NIN don't have to apply it when AoEing. Unless you mean DPS gained from mitigation, then we're back to DRK having the worst of the three tanks in general, SPECIALLY in AoE. Let's not forget DRK is the only tank that doesn't want WHM to do Holy.

And I don't understand why you think picking mobs on WAR is hard because they don't have Flash. I never even cross-classed it when we could. I bet you pick up mobs with Unleash on DRK? Why? You can do the same with Abyssal Drain btw and it does more damage. I never had any loose mobs because of the overeager DPS that "want to just do their combos". Even with BLMs or monks going ape-poop insane. You just run in, angle yourself and press Overpower, and Voila! Everything's on you. The hitbox on it is RETARDEDLY big.

Also you said "Sheltron sucks in packs of mobs" in one paragraph and then say "Sheltron is really good I think, maybe." in the next. Which is it? Are you sure YOU know what you're talking about? Also you're undermining PLD's mitigation when PLD has 2 cooldowns over DRK. Every CD the DRK has the PLD has it or a better version of it. Both have Ramps, Sentinel is better than Shadow Wall. HG is better than LD. Both have Anticipation, and PLD has Bulwark. And Clemency on self is ironically more aggro than anything the DRK has. And yes HG is long, but the value is that when it's used, everyone (including the PLD) is free to just go full DPS.

Yes Shelton is bad on packs, but so is TBN really. 20% of health is what? 12k? That's less than a Cure II. Clemency heals more than that and can crit, and as I said earlier, generates massive enmity if done in ShO. You basically spend DA worth of MP to get a under a cure 2 worth of HP. An Adlo. Then it breaks and goes on a 15 second CD.

And from the sound of it you're attributing sub 15-minute dungeon clears completely to your tank choice because you make it sound that DRK does BLM-level of AoE damage. I'll be blunt and say it this way: The ONLY thing a tank can contribute to a speed dungeon clear is how big you can pull without sacrificing your healer's sanity, and how fast do you sprint between said pulls. Because in fact, believe it or not, it relies almost completely on who your DPS are. Casters that don't AoE or melee that do 1k DPS in AoE will make your dungeon last an eternity no matter how much YOU DPS. And an 8k DPS BLM will make you look bad no matter what tank you are.

Don't get me wrong though, DRK is really fun in AoE, probably the most fun of the three. It is my tank of choice in dungeons, but not because it does more or less than WAR or PLD, but because the whole thing with TBN, Quietus and MP management for near infinite AoE spam is fun. So if you find DRK your cup of tea in dungeons, by all means, go ahead. But let's stop pretending that fast clears are all because of DRK's AoE DPS.

~ Phoenicia ~

[Sarcatica]

I don't really want to argue much on this topic. But really, you make it sound that DRK is BLM in plate armor. When in fact, it doesn't matter which tank you have as long as your pulls big. Any good DPS will do three times your DPS "at least". And on bosses (single target) DRK is clearly the biggest loser in ST-DPS between the tanks so even if you did more AoE in packs, you slow the run on bosses.

You lost your own argument when you said WAR's personal DPS beats DRK's. Personal DPS is all there is to a tank's DPS since no tank brings a DPS buff. But WAR brings slashing so SAM and NIN don't have to apply it when AoEing. Unless you mean DPS gained from mitigation, then we're back to DRK having the worst of the three tanks in general, SPECIALLY in AoE. Let's not forget DRK is the only tank that doesn't want WHM to do Holy.

And I don't understand why you think picking mobs on WAR is hard because they don't have Flash. I never even cross-classed it when we could. I bet you pick up mobs with Unleash on DRK? Why? You can do the same with Abyssal Drain btw and it does more damage. I never had any loose mobs because of the overeager DPS that "want to just do their combos". Even with BLMs or monks going ape-poop insane. You just run in, angle yourself and press Overpower, and Voila! Everything's on you. The hitbox on it is RETARDEDLY big.

Also you said "Sheltron sucks in packs of mobs" in one paragraph and then say "Sheltron is really good I think, maybe." in the next. Which is it? Are you sure YOU know what you're talking about? Also you're undermining PLD's mitigation when PLD has 2 cooldowns over DRK. Every CD the DRK has the PLD has it or a better version of it. Both have Ramps, Sentinel is better than Shadow Wall. HG is better than LD. Both have Anticipation, and PLD has Bulwark. And Clemency on self is ironically more aggro than anything the DRK has. And yes HG is long, but the value is that when it's used, everyone (including the PLD) is free to just go full DPS.

Yes Shelton is bad on packs, but so is TBN really. 20% of health is what? 12k? That's less than a Cure II. Clemency heals more than that and can crit, and as I said earlier, generates massive enmity if done in ShO. You basically spend DA worth of MP to get a under a cure 2 worth of HP. An Adlo. Then it breaks and goes on a 15 second CD.

And from the sound of it you're attributing sub 15-minute dungeon clears completely to your tank choice because you make it sound that DRK does BLM-level of AoE damage. I'll be blunt and say it this way: The ONLY thing a tank can contribute to a speed dungeon clear is how big you can pull without sacrificing your healer's sanity, and how fast do you sprint between said pulls. Because in fact, believe it or not, it relies almost completely on who your DPS are. Casters that don't AoE or melee that do 1k DPS in AoE will make your dungeon last an eternity no matter how much YOU DPS. And an 8k DPS BLM will make you look bad no matter what tank you are.

Don't get me wrong though, DRK is really fun in AoE, probably the most fun of the three. It is my tank of choice in dungeons, but not because it does more or less than WAR or PLD, but because the whole thing with TBN, Quietus and MP management for near infinite AoE spam is fun. So if you find DRK your cup of tea in dungeons, by all means, go ahead. But let's stop pretending that fast clears are all because of DRK's AoE DPS.

~ Phoenicia ~

This is why people should learn to understand first before replying. Since when did I mention that DRK's dmg is superior? WAR is superior in vacuum but you fail to mention healer's dps. You clearly do not understand the value of party DPS, WAR additional damage has a huge price weighing down healer's dps. WHM's Holy is only 6 secs stuns, you barely gain anything much from that which means that DRK should always play around that 6 secs and have more mana ready for next pulls. Sheltron's mitigation on an autoattack is like 400-600dmg, VS TBN at 11k. You are basically freeing your healer to top up more while you are also sustaining as a DRK. Clemency is a GCD loss, DAAD isn't and it does both dps and heal, what are you trying to say? WAR isn't anywhere better as well. DRK is the job that you want to bring if you have a competent team. Fastest clear by far has been DRK for me in all DREX, that says a lot and I can't achieve those timings as WAR/PLD as a matter of fact.

I don't really want to argue much on this topic. But really, you make it sound that DRK is BLM in plate armor. When in fact, it doesn't matter which tank you have as long as your pulls big. Any good DPS will do three times your DPS "at least". And on bosses (single target) DRK is clearly the biggest loser in ST-DPS between the tanks so even if you did more AoE in packs, you slow the run on bosses.

You also lost your argument when you mention that a good DPS should TRIPLE a tank's dps. That's just plain wrong and you don't even have the data to support that claim.

16,248 DPS total

I average about 2.5-3k damage depending on how fast or how slow the group is, does that mean that a DPS should be doing 7k++ at least? That's bullshit. Great DPS average at 5k++ dps each easily but that's not triple a tank's dps. UNLESS if you ARE doing 2k or less, then I will shut up. LUL

Don't even try to walk this way out tell that I'm wrong etc and the "I pay my sub, I do what I want" or "This is just a game, wtf so HC" or whatever reasons you can think of. I have more data if you want, but I will let it sink for now. Don't expose your opinions as the 'fact' when you can't prove it.

People like to think in vacuum but that's not how things work. Prove it if WAR is any better, but have some data for me to see at least.

[Hierro]

blah

I'd provide data for you, and I'm sure others might as well, but I have to work with what I got, and my faithful ps4 does not come with the ability to have third party programs, and so, this data you desire shall not be granted. However, comparisons can still be made.

You rate DRK as having the best aggro management, but really, that's chalked up to your lack of experience with WAR's very wide and far reaching cone. I used to think WAR was heavily nerfed when flash was removed, but you know, after learning POSITIONING, it was no issue at all and grabbing hate has never been an issue.

One factor you bring up very often is party DPS, but really, it's healer+tank combined since any dps is irrelevant to which tank is playing. Natively, DRK has living dead, SW and TBN, but WAR has ToB, raw intuition (whihc makes far better use of awareness), and equilibrium, and vengeance. Sure, TBN accounts for a good chunk and can be re-deployed more than once in a pull, but with its short duration, paired with SW's short duration, it translates into a big pull that must be burned quickly lest you find yourself starved for CDs next pull. Maybe you can make an arguement for using DA-AD in between those holes of mitigation, but that can only do so much because its' still DPS hampered by BP's grit lock.

WAR on the other hand can handle a prolonged large pull far more easily thanks to its plethora of CDs that retain their effectiveness past a few seconds. Unlike DRK, WAR's damage can be kept without stressing the healer out. You can use fewer CDs when you opt to use unchained, and more CDs when you're using deliverance. In either case, you have enough CDs to maintain above-sufficient mitigation, but perform more damage. Keep in mind, i'ts not just obtaining more damage in the form of losing a tank stance penalty, but also having access to berserk every pull.

Also, I'd like to point out that you excuse DRK being able to spam syphon strike when a pull is whittled down to its stranglers, yet seem to think that does not apply to WAR when it comes to building gauge between pulls. But really, if a team is truly competent then that's even more in favor of WAR because ensures mobs die quickly which negates WAR's percieved TP issue.

No doubt, however, that DRK can very well indeed jump into AoEing at least 3 GCDs earlier than WAR and provide a more continuous stream of abyssal drains. Since making my last posts criticizing DRK's AoE as being interrupted, I have practiced more and seen you can definitely keep yourself going in between quietus uses and non-DA'd AD. However, it is also far more noticable that my AoE is indeed less impactful and damaging than WAR. As to whether that results in more DPS than WAR, hard to say since it depends on other factors, but like earlier said, a need for such a continous stream is not needed when things die quickly, and as earlier posted, things die quickly when you're playing WAR.

in short, a correctly played WAR's higher damage does not come at the healer's expense.

[Sarcatica]

in short, a correctly played WAR's higher damage does not come at the healer's expense.

We can do an easy comparison. For WAR to not impact healer's ability to dps, mobs HAVE to die in 3 GCDs. That's not possible. On big pulls, you are taking 20-30k per auto from all mobs. No matter how tanky you are, you will still need heal. DRK can sustain about 1/2 of that and TBN blocks almost another 1/2. The only time you need some support from healer is when your TBN is on CD which is an instant 11k 'heal'. Compare that to WAR with very limited self heal and the need to heal makes healers needing to switch it up and heal more.

Let's talk about healer's dps in aoe situation. 1 gcd is 1.5k potency on average. For every heal, you are talking about that much potency lost. When WAR decides to tank, healers will have less uptime. Again, no matter how tanky WAR is, you still need heals. At higher potency, WAR denies healer the ability to dps more. You cant possibly do 6x Decimate for every pull if you look to end in 13mins and it takes a lot of time to build 100 gauge. It takes 4 combos which is about 25s that you are not aoe-ing. Which means that on average you are potentially losing up to 800 potency per gcd for every time you are building up 100 gauge for 6x Decimates.

DRK while enables healer to dps doesn't completely stop doing dps. DRK potency is lower than WAR that's for sure. Remember that every tank still needs heal just that DRK is conveniently as such that you get tools to deal with big pulling. So for what DRK is losing to WAR, healer's dps can offset and surpasses by at least 700 potency per gcd. 700 potency offset that is more consistent and has less swings is how high dps as a team is achieved. My healer friend is consistently doing more dps than me for the entirety of the DREXs, not including Ala Mhigo ofc.

[Phoenicia]

On big pulls, you are taking 20-30k per auto from all mobs. No matter how tanky you are, you will still need heal. DRK can sustain about 1/2 of that and TBN blocks almost another 1/2.

Okay, maybe I don't know how to do 1+1=2. But how does 11k irreplenishable shield every 15 seconds block half 20-30k PER AUTO (which is every 2~4 seconds)? Stop there, and think carefully before you try and continue this argument.

Another hint: DA costs 25% of your MP bar, AD costs 13% .DAAD is 38%, TBN is also 25%. How is spending 63% (more than half your MP) in 1 GCD and then the remiaining 38% the next GCD "sustainable"?.

Heck, WAR spamming NOTHING but Overpower can last at least 10 GCDs not counting TP regen (which would be 450 over 25 seconds) or Deliverance Equilibrium. DRK runs dry in 2 GCDs if using DAAD and a TBN to "sustain" the damage it takes. And do not even try to convince me that Blood Price is enough. Quietus will be 2 more AoE GCDs counting Quietus itself. And all the healer needs to ruin your day is Swiftcast a Holy.

Speaking of WHM and healer's DPS, the SECOND WHM spams holy, that's 10s of continuous AoE Stun-lock. TBN duration is 5s, 1 mistimed Holy (6s stun) will have dug a hole 25% deep into your MP with no gauge or potency to show for it. That alone shows how "bad" DRK synergizes with WHM.

I will stop here because it seems to me you are either unwilling to admit that DRK isn't "king" of AoE or do not have enough experience on the other two tanks to know enough.

As for proof, I can crop the same section on <insert cerain third party program name here> of any part of a 12 minute run in any dungeon and write next to it a number of total DPS, but what if 80% of that total DPS is the insanely GOD tier BLMs? Your cropped part doesn't even show what class you were, if you were even in there. And to be honest it doesn't matter. Tank+Healer combined DPS will only make the run a few seconds faster/slower.

As I said in my previous post: A tank's only contribution to a speed dungeon clear is How big you Pull without dying and how fast you run between said pulls. The healer's contribution is making sure no wipes in the process. The rest is ALL in your DPS class's hands. And if you think a BLM or SMN can't parse 8k on a pack, you need to run with better casters.

[Sarcatica]

Okay, maybe I don't know how to do 1+1=2. But how does 11k irreplenishable shield every 15 seconds block half 20-30k PER AUTO (which is every 2~4 seconds)? Stop there, and think carefully before you try and continue this argument.

Another hint: DA costs 25% of your MP bar, AD costs 13% .DAAD is 38%, TBN is also 25%. How is spending 63% (more than half your MP) in 1 GCD and then the remiaining 38% the next GCD "sustainable"?.

Heck, WAR spamming NOTHING but Overpower can last at least 10 GCDs not counting TP regen (which would be 450 over 25 seconds) or Deliverance Equilibrium. DRK runs dry in 2 GCDs if using DAAD and a TBN to "sustain" the damage it takes. And do not even try to convince me that Blood Price is enough. Quietus will be 2 more AoE GCDs counting Quietus itself. And all the healer needs to ruin your day is Swiftcast a Holy.

Speaking of WHM and healer's DPS, the SECOND WHM spams holy, that's 10s of continuous AoE Stun-lock. TBN duration is 5s, 1 mistimed Holy (6s stun) will have dug a hole 25% deep into your MP with no gauge or potency to show for it. That alone shows how "bad" DRK synergizes with WHM.

I will stop here because it seems to me you are either unwilling to admit that DRK isn't "king" of AoE or do not have enough experience on the other two tanks to know enough.

As for proof, I can crop the same section on <insert cerain third party program name here> of any part of a 12 minute run in any dungeon and write next to it a number of total DPS, but what if 80% of that total DPS is the insanely GOD tier BLMs? Your cropped part doesn't even show what class you were, if you were even in there. And to be honest it doesn't matter. Tank+Healer combined DPS will only make the run a few seconds faster/slower.

As I said in my previous post: A tank's only contribution to a speed dungeon clear is How big you Pull without dying and how fast you run between said pulls. The healer's contribution is making sure no wipes in the process. The rest is ALL in your DPS class's hands. And if you think a BLM or SMN can't parse 8k on a pack, you need to run with better casters.

20k-30k is figuratively speaking. TBN works to also give mana via Quietus which enables healing. Like mentioned, it's about half-half mitigation so healer needs to still heal a bit but not as much as if your WAR go all ham for that 6x Decimate. You never go dry in big pulls, BP gives 1 gauge for every hit, TBN gives 50 gauge, if any, you are sure to cap your mana on big pulls due to how many mobs are hitting you. Hence you can back to back DAAD into Quietus into TBN Quietus DAAD DAAD Quietus etc. Only once your mobs count start going down that your mana take a hit and you need to sustain via Syphon and BP is normally up for start of each pull.

You forget to account that healer can be AST or SCH, not just WHM. And as mentioned again, you play around WHM because of that multiple stuns to maximize your TBN value and mana value. Which idiot uses TBN when mobs are stunned, you also fail to mention that 1st GCD of WHM's rotation is Aero 3 and that's ample of time for mobs to break your TBN when stationary. Please do read my comments again before replying.

You can stop whenever, I know how to play tank well enough. Can you say the same for your case? I seeing a bunch of blues and low purples here.
If you want me to provide the full screenies then say so. You don't need to resort to saying excuses that you think it might be the case. All the 3 runs linked are full runs from 1st pull, I have no obligation to entertain you tbh.

It is important for me that I as a tank can maximize everyone's dps whenever possible. What I sacrifice can reap the team a much better results in the dungeon case where you are taking constant high dmg spikes. If this works for everything else, heck, I will do it for the party BUT that's still depending on the context.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

Sure, let's ignore all the math and resort to personal insults. And how do we do that these days? By checking FFLogs and pick up the odd runs where they parse gray and low purples. Let's pick the ilv316 BRD runs where healers can't find their Medica button and ignore the part in there where it says 40s without healing. Let's also ignore the high purples and orange parses that were in normal kills, not even "FFlog parse runs". Let's also pretend that we do know the other person and assume that none of their Exdeath runs were above 4.3k when the group decides to die to black orbs or stand in fire but when they finally get petrified because random healer couldn't find Medica again a melee sneaks LB2 and Exdad dies and the parse registers a blue.

Did you bother to check my tank runs on the primals? None of them is below 87, that's ilv 316, last week (so still relevant) and without food or pots? Most of them as main tank, meaning defensive play and sneaking into tank stance at one time or another.

Low FFLogs don't mean jack. I mean if I cared so much about my parses I wouldn't use the PF ever. I would also hide my character since I have low purples.

I was not even arguing that DRK is week in AoE in any form. Just the notion of being "king" is misguiding. Each tank brings something to the table. And no matter how well you do DPS wise on your tank, your contribution to speed clear in THAT specific regard is ~20seconds give or take. The rest is in your DDs' hands.

Either way, I'll quote myself again:

I will stop here because it seems to me you are either unwilling to admit that DRK isn't "king" of AoE or do not have enough experience on the other two tanks to know enough.

Cheers
~ Phoenicia ~